1 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:02,439 today on the show we're going inside 2 00:00:07,490 --> 00:00:06,330 skinwalker ranch with MJ Banaras I sort 3 00:00:09,530 --> 00:00:07,500 of flattered asked him I mean listen I 4 00:00:10,940 --> 00:00:09,540 said you're a scientist you work on this 5 00:00:12,589 --> 00:00:10,950 weird paranormal ranch like what do you 6 00:00:14,629 --> 00:00:12,599 think about this and he said well okay 7 00:00:15,980 --> 00:00:14,639 first of all you know paranormal isn't 8 00:00:17,930 --> 00:00:15,990 necessary the word I would use right you 9 00:00:20,420 --> 00:00:17,940 know he says the ranch has anomalies 10 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:20,430 science has anomalies we're just trying 11 00:00:30,429 --> 00:00:21,690 to figure out what these anomalies are 12 00:01:00,030 --> 00:00:35,000 this is somewhere in the skies inspired 13 00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:02,410 welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm 14 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:05,089 your host Ryan spread and this is a long 15 00:01:10,510 --> 00:01:07,130 awaited volume of somewhere in the 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:10,520 whiskey past guests MJ bonus shares a 17 00:01:14,980 --> 00:01:12,890 healthy dose of bourbon with me as we 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:14,990 chat all about his recent private tour 19 00:01:20,590 --> 00:01:18,050 of skinwalker ranch this highly 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:20,600 secretive and mysterious ranch in Utah 21 00:01:25,749 --> 00:01:22,250 has been the subject of intense 22 00:01:28,359 --> 00:01:25,759 speculation scientific examination in 23 00:01:30,999 --> 00:01:28,369 every type of the weird phenomena you 24 00:01:33,460 --> 00:01:31,009 could possibly think of once owned by 25 00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:33,470 billionaire Robert Bigelow and studied 26 00:01:38,139 --> 00:01:35,750 by leading scientists in their fields 27 00:01:41,889 --> 00:01:38,149 the ranch was eventually sold to a new 28 00:01:44,889 --> 00:01:41,899 owner and that owner recently gave MJ 29 00:01:47,529 --> 00:01:44,899 full access to the ranch and what is 30 00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:47,539 currently going on there we talked all 31 00:01:52,270 --> 00:01:49,940 about MJ's experiences at the ranch what 32 00:01:55,779 --> 00:01:52,280 he left feeling and of course we dig 33 00:01:58,809 --> 00:01:55,789 deep into UFOs as well and as always the 34 00:02:00,790 --> 00:01:58,819 more we drink the more honest we did so 35 00:02:02,919 --> 00:02:00,800 grab your drink of choice and join us 36 00:02:05,610 --> 00:02:02,929 for this volume of somewhere in the 37 00:02:10,650 --> 00:02:07,460 [Music] 38 00:02:13,170 --> 00:02:10,660 welcome to another long-awaited and 39 00:02:15,660 --> 00:02:13,180 requested volume of somewhere in the 40 00:02:17,910 --> 00:02:15,670 whiskey that's right our good friend of 41 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:17,920 the show and enemy of the state of 42 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:21,340 ufology and Japanese is back what do you 43 00:02:23,550 --> 00:02:23,170 drink at a friend it's always a pleasure 44 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:23,560 to be here 45 00:02:28,530 --> 00:02:26,370 I'm tonight's the drink of choice is 46 00:02:30,300 --> 00:02:28,540 it's it's it's another Crown Royal 47 00:02:33,090 --> 00:02:30,310 special it's their northern harvest 48 00:02:35,190 --> 00:02:33,100 which is sort of tough to get outside of 49 00:02:38,430 --> 00:02:35,200 where I live but they had a special 50 00:02:40,770 --> 00:02:38,440 release in things in 2016 so I saw some 51 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:40,780 kicking around and it won best whiskey 52 00:02:46,410 --> 00:02:43,870 in the world or something in 2016 so I'm 53 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:46,420 enjoying a nice local Canadian ride I 54 00:02:51,090 --> 00:02:48,250 was gonna say yes it arrived it's gotta 55 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:51,100 be if it's a crown for sure yeah I got a 56 00:02:55,380 --> 00:02:53,530 Clayton distillery clay in New York 57 00:02:58,110 --> 00:02:55,390 bourbon with me here 58 00:03:00,030 --> 00:02:58,120 very limited badge it's good man it's 59 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:00,040 been keeping me warm this winter so 60 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:02,770 keeping me warm in this winter and warm 61 00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:05,890 in the field of ufology which I feel has 62 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:08,860 been pretty cold lately it's it ufology 63 00:03:12,690 --> 00:03:11,050 has become an alcoholics paradise you 64 00:03:15,390 --> 00:03:12,700 need to definitely drink in order to 65 00:03:17,699 --> 00:03:15,400 stay alive in it so it's it's yeah it's 66 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:17,709 it's been a fun year it has it I don't 67 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:21,100 know how I went almost what god I had 68 00:03:24,870 --> 00:03:22,930 you win the book when your book came out 69 00:03:26,729 --> 00:03:24,880 that's the last time we've spoken so 70 00:03:28,350 --> 00:03:26,739 it's been a long time being sober since 71 00:03:31,590 --> 00:03:28,360 then so I'm looking forward to this 72 00:03:34,650 --> 00:03:31,600 excellent me too mm-hmm well speaking of 73 00:03:36,810 --> 00:03:34,660 which you caught me mid mid sip there a 74 00:03:39,180 --> 00:03:36,820 lot has happened since we last spoke a 75 00:03:42,479 --> 00:03:39,190 new decade has been ushered in both in 76 00:03:46,110 --> 00:03:42,489 the real world as we know it and in the 77 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:46,120 UFO world and a lot in 2019 so so before 78 00:03:50,340 --> 00:03:47,950 we kind of dive in here man with just 79 00:03:52,650 --> 00:03:50,350 some some randomness that is somewhere 80 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:52,660 in the whiskey what some of your 81 00:03:57,300 --> 00:03:55,510 favorite stories from 2019 to come out 82 00:03:59,850 --> 00:03:57,310 of the UFO world anything really stick 83 00:04:02,120 --> 00:03:59,860 out to you well okay I mean 2019 has 84 00:04:07,140 --> 00:04:02,130 really been the year of to the stars so 85 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:07,150 it's really tough to avoid that I think 86 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:08,650 you know I think there's been a lot of 87 00:04:13,289 --> 00:04:11,110 stuff concerning to the stars concerning 88 00:04:15,629 --> 00:04:13,299 the a tip program out of the Pentagon 89 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:15,639 there's been a lot of kind of back and 90 00:04:18,030 --> 00:04:17,290 forth from the Pentagon as to what 91 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:18,040 exactly 92 00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:21,490 was there's been just a lot of UFO 93 00:04:28,710 --> 00:04:25,840 community drama the UAP expedition guys 94 00:04:31,010 --> 00:04:28,720 they've been kind of a big deal recently 95 00:04:33,390 --> 00:04:31,020 so there's there's been a lot of 96 00:04:35,670 --> 00:04:33,400 interesting things that have happened um 97 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:35,680 I think my favorite stories that came 98 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:40,330 out for me was the the sort of the UFO 99 00:04:45,810 --> 00:04:43,930 sort of Silicon Valley sort of investors 100 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:45,820 who came out and started talking about 101 00:04:49,050 --> 00:04:46,630 some of the stuff that they're doing 102 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:49,060 related to UFOs and how there's a big 103 00:04:52,410 --> 00:04:50,650 push in Silicon Valley in California 104 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:52,420 about a bunch of guys we're just sort of 105 00:04:56,820 --> 00:04:54,610 really into the UFO stuff and they're 106 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:56,830 you know kind of dabbling in it a little 107 00:05:00,960 --> 00:04:57,250 bit 108 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:00,970 the UAP expedition people from kevin day 109 00:05:07,020 --> 00:05:04,360 and all of his crew kind of doing a big 110 00:05:08,820 --> 00:05:07,030 project out and out in the Pacific Ocean 111 00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:08,830 they're off the coast of California to 112 00:05:14,030 --> 00:05:11,260 kind of look for UFOs that's a fun story 113 00:05:17,790 --> 00:05:14,040 um you know I think overall 2019 is is 114 00:05:20,850 --> 00:05:17,800 has been the year where you know UFOs 115 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:20,860 have have really taken a big step 116 00:05:26,610 --> 00:05:24,730 towards legitimacy I think I think 2017 117 00:05:29,430 --> 00:05:26,620 was sort of the beginning of that but I 118 00:05:32,310 --> 00:05:29,440 think 2019 has been the year where we've 119 00:05:35,150 --> 00:05:32,320 had lots of press about UFOs not just 120 00:05:39,690 --> 00:05:35,160 related TV I say other projects too but 121 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:39,700 this this notion that scientists phd's 122 00:05:46,050 --> 00:05:41,950 academics are starting to look at UFOs 123 00:05:49,220 --> 00:05:46,060 not just as something that's crazy but 124 00:05:51,060 --> 00:05:49,230 something that's you know maybe 125 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:51,070 something we ought to put time and 126 00:05:57,090 --> 00:05:54,130 attention and some resources into so um 127 00:05:59,310 --> 00:05:57,100 yeah for me 2019 has been a good year it 128 00:06:01,800 --> 00:05:59,320 was it really was a few steps forward 129 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:01,810 but um you know then we take one step 130 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:05,170 back with storm area51 so right what 131 00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:07,450 were your thoughts on that I I didn't 132 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:09,190 want to go there but I gotta know what 133 00:06:16,620 --> 00:06:12,910 you think man okay so storm area 51 was 134 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:16,630 a was a big story I followed because I 135 00:06:21,870 --> 00:06:20,050 was doing stuff for Vice for them in in 136 00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:21,880 regards to storm a 51 so there's a lot 137 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:26,020 happening and just the the intrigue and 138 00:06:31,439 --> 00:06:29,290 the politics of putting this stuff 139 00:06:33,149 --> 00:06:31,449 together you know you 140 00:06:36,510 --> 00:06:33,159 had counties declaring states of 141 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:36,520 emergency so that they could call in you 142 00:06:42,929 --> 00:06:39,490 know funds to help you know bring in 143 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:42,939 people to remove you know drunks and 144 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:45,430 bring in medical care and fly people out 145 00:06:51,149 --> 00:06:47,740 if they need to like it was people were 146 00:06:52,559 --> 00:06:51,159 expecting pandemonium yeah and it it 147 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:52,569 didn't happen 148 00:06:59,070 --> 00:06:55,990 there was no pandemonium but it goes to 149 00:07:01,709 --> 00:06:59,080 show how quickly something can go viral 150 00:07:05,189 --> 00:07:01,719 um and how quickly it gets blown out of 151 00:07:07,499 --> 00:07:05,199 proportion and and how many people take 152 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:07,509 it seriously like leading up to it like 153 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:09,810 there was so much drama in regards to 154 00:07:16,350 --> 00:07:14,770 the little little alien and and there's 155 00:07:18,779 --> 00:07:16,360 the stuff getting cancelled and then 156 00:07:20,670 --> 00:07:18,789 moved to Las Vegas like oh my gosh that 157 00:07:22,739 --> 00:07:20,680 the phone calls I was getting at like 158 00:07:25,769 --> 00:07:22,749 random times of the night from people in 159 00:07:27,269 --> 00:07:25,779 Nevada being like oh dude you know this 160 00:07:29,489 --> 00:07:27,279 is happening now we're moving the party 161 00:07:30,179 --> 00:07:29,499 here and it's like oh god it's like 3:00 162 00:07:32,339 --> 00:07:30,189 in the morning 163 00:07:35,219 --> 00:07:32,349 what are you doing Hannah died okay yeah 164 00:07:36,179 --> 00:07:35,229 yeah but I was reaching out to all of 165 00:07:37,709 --> 00:07:36,189 them right because I was writing 166 00:07:39,239 --> 00:07:37,719 articles for Vice so for them they 167 00:07:41,939 --> 00:07:39,249 viewed it as a bit of publicity and 168 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:41,949 whatever so we had to we had to kind of 169 00:07:45,239 --> 00:07:44,050 be careful because there's a lot of 170 00:07:47,399 --> 00:07:45,249 people who were involved in some of 171 00:07:49,499 --> 00:07:47,409 those projects that that you're like wow 172 00:07:51,689 --> 00:07:49,509 okay these these guys are serious sort 173 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:51,699 of promoters and in Vegas and and they 174 00:07:55,379 --> 00:07:53,110 definitely have connections to maybe 175 00:07:56,610 --> 00:07:55,389 some organizations you know I don't 176 00:07:57,959 --> 00:07:56,620 necessarily want to be involved with 177 00:08:01,889 --> 00:07:57,969 when it comes to you know other 178 00:08:04,649 --> 00:08:01,899 activities in Las Vegas so it was yeah 179 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:04,659 it was an interesting ride an 180 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:06,370 unfortunate I think the whole storming 181 00:08:10,679 --> 00:08:07,810 51 thing I'm kind of happy it went away 182 00:08:12,869 --> 00:08:10,689 in you know in hindsight yeah it's 183 00:08:14,670 --> 00:08:12,879 probably for the best I mean there are 184 00:08:17,159 --> 00:08:14,680 certain people were who were hoping this 185 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:17,169 would be like a huge thing they become 186 00:08:22,409 --> 00:08:19,810 annual and we'll have a storm area51 187 00:08:24,149 --> 00:08:22,419 every year and maybe we will who knows I 188 00:08:26,850 --> 00:08:24,159 know the the guy who started the 189 00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:26,860 original Facebook group he wants to like 190 00:08:34,649 --> 00:08:30,969 do I don't blame him but um it did sort 191 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:34,659 of just kind of fizzle the you know the 192 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:37,870 response to it in the media was less 193 00:08:44,009 --> 00:08:41,260 venom I'd say positive or exciting after 194 00:08:45,269 --> 00:08:44,019 the event and you're right it kind of 195 00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:45,279 just faded into obscure 196 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:47,920 and like you I kind of just completely 197 00:08:52,230 --> 00:08:50,740 forgot about it so maybe it's for the 198 00:08:54,569 --> 00:08:52,240 best we have much more important things 199 00:08:56,100 --> 00:08:54,579 to focus on and worry about and I 200 00:08:57,869 --> 00:08:56,110 guarantee you none of the stuff we're 201 00:09:00,210 --> 00:08:57,879 talking about is going on at area 51 202 00:09:01,889 --> 00:09:00,220 that's right yeah I think I think he's 203 00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:01,899 just best left alone at this point this 204 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:03,910 storm area do you want nonsense yeah 205 00:09:07,949 --> 00:09:06,430 well okay so this is kind of the big one 206 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:07,959 that I wanted to talk to you about today 207 00:09:11,009 --> 00:09:09,850 I'm Jay um this is somewhere in the 208 00:09:14,340 --> 00:09:11,019 whiskey but I'm gonna be calling this 209 00:09:17,009 --> 00:09:14,350 one somewhere inside skinwalker ranch 210 00:09:17,790 --> 00:09:17,019 and this was an article you just came 211 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:17,800 out with recently 212 00:09:22,499 --> 00:09:20,649 I know leading up to this you had kind 213 00:09:24,269 --> 00:09:22,509 of you and I had been talking off the 214 00:09:25,710 --> 00:09:24,279 record for a little bit and I knew you 215 00:09:27,749 --> 00:09:25,720 were up to something but I didn't know 216 00:09:30,809 --> 00:09:27,759 quite what and then boom you dropped 217 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:30,819 this on us how the hell did this come 218 00:09:37,619 --> 00:09:33,910 about writing a vice article about going 219 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:37,629 inside skinwalker ranch it all began 220 00:09:42,929 --> 00:09:39,850 must have been it under a year ago for 221 00:09:46,350 --> 00:09:42,939 sure like eight or nine months ago I was 222 00:09:49,199 --> 00:09:46,360 I was up to something and I was I was 223 00:09:53,819 --> 00:09:49,209 doing some research and I just sort of 224 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:53,829 bumped into you know possibly you know 225 00:09:59,280 --> 00:09:56,170 figuring out who you know the owner of 226 00:10:03,079 --> 00:09:59,290 the ranch was and and and you know I I 227 00:10:06,269 --> 00:10:03,089 quietly reached out and just said hey 228 00:10:08,910 --> 00:10:06,279 how's it going you know and just kind of 229 00:10:12,329 --> 00:10:08,920 testing the waters and dipping my toe in 230 00:10:16,170 --> 00:10:12,339 and you know what slowly happened over 231 00:10:19,170 --> 00:10:16,180 time was you know the the email kind of 232 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:19,180 turned into another email and then it 233 00:10:24,179 --> 00:10:21,670 turned into you know a phone call and 234 00:10:28,499 --> 00:10:24,189 and basically over a few months you know 235 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:28,509 we started chatting and you know it just 236 00:10:32,639 --> 00:10:30,670 kind of worked out I guess that's kind 237 00:10:34,350 --> 00:10:32,649 of the best way to put it it's I'm sure 238 00:10:35,610 --> 00:10:34,360 you know you know the problem is once 239 00:10:37,439 --> 00:10:35,620 you start talking to a journalist right 240 00:10:39,929 --> 00:10:37,449 you kind of start wading into those 241 00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:39,939 waters of you know when does this become 242 00:10:45,329 --> 00:10:42,160 a story and when do I become the subject 243 00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:45,339 of the story right yeah so so I think 244 00:10:50,610 --> 00:10:47,649 there was a sort of end game always in 245 00:10:53,759 --> 00:10:50,620 in in play to kind of do a story on 246 00:10:55,319 --> 00:10:53,769 skinwalker ranch because I was really 247 00:10:59,240 --> 00:10:55,329 fundamentally interested in what was 248 00:11:02,070 --> 00:10:59,250 going on there you know we all kind of 249 00:11:05,610 --> 00:11:02,080 what used to go on there in regards to 250 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:05,620 the Bigelow program under bass and needs 251 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:08,200 and you know it's all quite public the 252 00:11:12,260 --> 00:11:10,210 book hunt for the skinwalker obviously 253 00:11:14,730 --> 00:11:12,270 you know Jeremy corbels film kind of 254 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:14,740 recapitulating on all that and just kind 255 00:11:19,890 --> 00:11:17,200 of you know showing us a few more 256 00:11:21,690 --> 00:11:19,900 snippets of information but from that 257 00:11:23,460 --> 00:11:21,700 book we kind of had a general picture we 258 00:11:25,860 --> 00:11:23,470 don't have any data obviously but we had 259 00:11:28,830 --> 00:11:25,870 a general picture of the stuff that was 260 00:11:30,630 --> 00:11:28,840 kind of going on on the ranch but no one 261 00:11:33,060 --> 00:11:30,640 really knew and and and you know the 262 00:11:34,170 --> 00:11:33,070 Korbel film didn't really get into it as 263 00:11:36,930 --> 00:11:34,180 to what was going on 264 00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:36,940 post 2016 when the ranch got sold I was 265 00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:38,830 really curious like I I I had heard 266 00:11:44,430 --> 00:11:41,920 rumors about people who were involved I 267 00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:44,440 had heard rumors about you know some of 268 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:46,030 the things they thought were going on 269 00:11:52,020 --> 00:11:48,690 and and they were very much not 270 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:52,030 convinced that this was some sort of you 271 00:11:56,910 --> 00:11:55,450 know paranormal or sort of spiritual 272 00:11:58,560 --> 00:11:56,920 thing this is you know maybe something 273 00:12:00,540 --> 00:11:58,570 more scientific maybe some natural 274 00:12:01,770 --> 00:12:00,550 phenomena we don't understand so I found 275 00:12:04,170 --> 00:12:01,780 it really compelling right that you had 276 00:12:06,990 --> 00:12:04,180 a team that came to the ranch that was 277 00:12:08,460 --> 00:12:07,000 not necessarily viewing it as the place 278 00:12:12,270 --> 00:12:08,470 where there's bullet proof wolves 279 00:12:14,610 --> 00:12:12,280 running around but but more as you know 280 00:12:17,550 --> 00:12:14,620 we have these weird events so let's try 281 00:12:21,060 --> 00:12:17,560 and figure it out in in a purely sort of 282 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:21,070 observational scientific way and and 283 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:22,990 that's kind of what the article goes 284 00:12:27,420 --> 00:12:24,970 into and yeah it's just that's kind of 285 00:12:30,930 --> 00:12:27,430 how it happened it was a very slow burn 286 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:30,940 but it pays off and and in the long run 287 00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:32,950 I guess yeah and I mean what were those 288 00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:35,830 first moments like when you got to the 289 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:37,420 ranch I mean this is something that most 290 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,050 of us have haven't probably never will 291 00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:42,160 experience I mean you had a pretty 292 00:12:48,210 --> 00:12:45,310 thrilling esque it seems dramatic 293 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:48,220 entrance into the the ranch itself so 294 00:12:52,950 --> 00:12:50,410 what was that like first stepping ground 295 00:12:56,220 --> 00:12:52,960 on the ranch yeah I have to be honest it 296 00:12:59,850 --> 00:12:56,230 it was a weird experience because you 297 00:13:01,470 --> 00:12:59,860 know I personally am you know I'm the 298 00:13:03,270 --> 00:13:01,480 UFO community kind of knows me as a 299 00:13:06,090 --> 00:13:03,280 skeptic and I'm actually not that 300 00:13:09,690 --> 00:13:06,100 skeptical but I'm I'm very critical 301 00:13:12,270 --> 00:13:09,700 let's put it that way so in my brain 302 00:13:13,109 --> 00:13:12,280 right I have this obvious kind of weird 303 00:13:15,869 --> 00:13:13,119 disconnect 304 00:13:19,229 --> 00:13:15,879 I'm standing sort of or we're rolling up 305 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:19,239 in in in the vehicle and I'm like okay 306 00:13:21,569 --> 00:13:19,689 listen 307 00:13:23,459 --> 00:13:21,579 it's just our ranch like it's just a 308 00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:23,469 ranch in Utah right like there's nothing 309 00:13:29,099 --> 00:13:24,969 here 310 00:13:30,929 --> 00:13:29,109 weird stuff happening but you know 311 00:13:34,079 --> 00:13:30,939 there's no crazy wolves or 312 00:13:36,209 --> 00:13:34,089 shape-shifting men or or aliens like 313 00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,219 this is not a thing so the rational 314 00:13:41,369 --> 00:13:38,079 logical part of my brain is like this is 315 00:13:43,349 --> 00:13:41,379 just nonsense so okay here we go 316 00:13:45,629 --> 00:13:43,359 I'm gonna go on someone's farm basically 317 00:13:49,259 --> 00:13:45,639 but then as you're pulling up and as 318 00:13:51,329 --> 00:13:49,269 you're seeing all the mesas and and and 319 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:51,339 all that you know I'm having this moment 320 00:13:54,449 --> 00:13:52,809 of like holy crap like I've been 321 00:13:56,909 --> 00:13:54,459 researching this now for probably two or 322 00:14:00,239 --> 00:13:56,919 three years really really researching it 323 00:14:03,479 --> 00:14:00,249 for the last few months like I'm finally 324 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:03,489 here and I roll up to the gate and then 325 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:05,169 there's that that weird moment that that 326 00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:07,529 that that rational part of your brain 327 00:14:11,669 --> 00:14:10,089 starts to kind of slip away and you 328 00:14:15,149 --> 00:14:11,679 start kind of going well what if like 329 00:14:17,489 --> 00:14:15,159 what if this place is like dangerous 330 00:14:19,949 --> 00:14:17,499 like what if these signs are here for an 331 00:14:21,509 --> 00:14:19,959 actual reason you know what if people 332 00:14:23,669 --> 00:14:21,519 are getting hurt what if there are 333 00:14:25,229 --> 00:14:23,679 bullet proof wolves and what if I bump 334 00:14:26,789 --> 00:14:25,239 into one right like you know what I mean 335 00:14:29,669 --> 00:14:26,799 like you start going through this this 336 00:14:32,879 --> 00:14:29,679 this fear right this psychological 337 00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:32,889 manipulation let's say and immediately I 338 00:14:38,279 --> 00:14:35,889 get out of the vehicle and you know I 339 00:14:40,259 --> 00:14:38,289 meet the security guard who's a really 340 00:14:42,239 --> 00:14:40,269 nice guy and then this big black dog 341 00:14:43,379 --> 00:14:42,249 like runs up to me and it's just the 342 00:14:45,329 --> 00:14:43,389 nicest animal you've ever met in your 343 00:14:46,829 --> 00:14:45,339 life but you're on skinwalker ranch so 344 00:14:48,179 --> 00:14:46,839 when you see this black mass moving 345 00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:48,189 towards you from the distance you're 346 00:14:58,649 --> 00:14:56,529 like oh no so you know there's this very 347 00:15:01,169 --> 00:14:58,659 nice dog runs up and we become fast 348 00:15:03,389 --> 00:15:01,179 friends but it's you know it's it's 349 00:15:05,939 --> 00:15:03,399 weird it's really weird because your 350 00:15:08,549 --> 00:15:05,949 brain tries to juggle with with the very 351 00:15:11,939 --> 00:15:08,559 real objective reality that it's just a 352 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:11,949 ranch and the the the very mythological 353 00:15:18,059 --> 00:15:14,529 stuff that exists on that ranch and and 354 00:15:19,289 --> 00:15:18,069 and the stories you've heard and and I 355 00:15:20,969 --> 00:15:19,299 have Gus there were moments where I was 356 00:15:23,099 --> 00:15:20,979 on there especially in the old 357 00:15:25,169 --> 00:15:23,109 homesteads where you're kind of walking 358 00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:25,179 through them and it's it's the middle of 359 00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:26,830 the day but they're very dark like 360 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:29,440 the windows are so small and they're so 361 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:31,300 dilapidated everything's so dark in 362 00:15:34,259 --> 00:15:32,649 there you know there were moments where 363 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:34,269 I walked into one of those buildings and 364 00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:36,130 and like I had that feeling in the pit 365 00:15:38,610 --> 00:15:37,300 of my stomach like something was gonna 366 00:15:40,139 --> 00:15:38,620 jump out like something else was in 367 00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:40,149 there and I was gonna turn the corner 368 00:15:43,889 --> 00:15:41,830 and there it was gonna be right like in 369 00:15:45,389 --> 00:15:43,899 every horror movie but you know again 370 00:15:47,069 --> 00:15:45,399 it's probably just psychological but 371 00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:47,079 it's it's still there right the fear is 372 00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,079 still very real so it's a very eerie 373 00:15:54,269 --> 00:15:52,240 place but it's also incredibly beautiful 374 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:54,279 and I think that's one thing that we 375 00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:56,110 really want to copy out here is it's not 376 00:16:04,110 --> 00:15:59,920 some dark horrible place it is it is a 377 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:04,120 beautiful piece of land and like I sort 378 00:16:08,190 --> 00:16:05,649 of said in the article like I could just 379 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:08,200 grab a tent and my camping bag and I 380 00:16:12,090 --> 00:16:09,370 could live there for a week just 381 00:16:14,670 --> 00:16:12,100 exploring and just live outside because 382 00:16:16,170 --> 00:16:14,680 that's how beautiful it is the beauty 383 00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:16,180 sort of comes from the history of the 384 00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:19,089 area and the you know the the Native 385 00:16:23,550 --> 00:16:21,279 Americans that live there so what was 386 00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:23,560 that like getting that side of it 387 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:27,190 besides the you know the UFOs and the 388 00:16:31,350 --> 00:16:29,890 high-tech stuff that's now being tested 389 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:31,360 there which I'd like to touch on a 390 00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:33,760 little bit if you're willing to um but 391 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:35,860 what was that like talking to someone 392 00:16:41,850 --> 00:16:39,370 from the area yeah so so the Uintah 393 00:16:44,699 --> 00:16:41,860 Basin is home predominately to like the 394 00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:44,709 ute tribe and they're a very very small 395 00:16:47,699 --> 00:16:46,630 group there's only like three thousand 396 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:47,709 you laughter I think it was actually 397 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:50,620 less than that so they kind of the 398 00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:52,570 reservation is sort of this this 399 00:16:56,790 --> 00:16:55,600 chequered series of spots that run 400 00:16:59,010 --> 00:16:56,800 through the base and so it's not like 401 00:17:00,750 --> 00:16:59,020 the whole Uintah Basin is one giant sort 402 00:17:03,540 --> 00:17:00,760 of section of ute reservation land it's 403 00:17:05,579 --> 00:17:03,550 it's sort of spotted pieces of the basin 404 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:05,589 rru reservation land and there's these 405 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:07,089 weird chunks that that aren't and 406 00:17:10,350 --> 00:17:09,010 there's you know America and then 407 00:17:13,409 --> 00:17:10,360 there's this other chunk that's you 408 00:17:15,809 --> 00:17:13,419 reservation land so when you speak to 409 00:17:17,669 --> 00:17:15,819 the ute a lot of people in the basin 410 00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:17,679 have have claimed to have seen strange 411 00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:19,990 things and and you know lights in the 412 00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:21,280 sky and whatever so I think that there 413 00:17:24,990 --> 00:17:23,199 is something to that narrative I think 414 00:17:26,610 --> 00:17:25,000 there's something to the the people who 415 00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:26,620 live in the basin and the stuff they see 416 00:17:31,049 --> 00:17:28,750 in the weird experiences they have once 417 00:17:33,090 --> 00:17:31,059 you start speaking to the tribe in an 418 00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:33,100 official capacity so I reached out to 419 00:17:37,770 --> 00:17:36,190 there they're sort of admin office they 420 00:17:39,030 --> 00:17:37,780 were very quick to kind of point out a 421 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:39,040 few things before the first one being 422 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:40,690 that that the Navajo were never 423 00:17:45,930 --> 00:17:43,450 in the UN - basin so this whole stuff of 424 00:17:48,029 --> 00:17:45,940 skinwalkers and the land being cursed 425 00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:48,039 would not have probably occurred in the 426 00:17:52,349 --> 00:17:50,440 basin itself because there would never 427 00:17:54,060 --> 00:17:52,359 would have been Navajo people living in 428 00:17:58,169 --> 00:17:54,070 the basin at least not according to the 429 00:17:59,789 --> 00:17:58,179 ute tribe in any official sense so the 430 00:18:00,779 --> 00:17:59,799 the woman I was dealing with wit from 431 00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:00,789 the youichi's this order for the 432 00:18:08,009 --> 00:18:05,220 cultural protector cultural liaison for 433 00:18:10,979 --> 00:18:08,019 for the tribe she said you know you have 434 00:18:14,159 --> 00:18:10,989 to kind of note that in in your article 435 00:18:15,479 --> 00:18:14,169 you know the Navajo never really were in 436 00:18:17,399 --> 00:18:15,489 the basin now she said you know what 437 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:17,409 that being said we don't really have 438 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:18,970 historical records so is it possible 439 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:21,369 that you know a group of Navajo did live 440 00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:23,529 in the basement Basin temporarily you 441 00:18:28,769 --> 00:18:25,960 know maybe but you know it's more than 442 00:18:31,739 --> 00:18:28,779 likely they didn't Navajo land was like 443 00:18:34,289 --> 00:18:31,749 400 miles south of the basin which is 444 00:18:37,109 --> 00:18:34,299 quite a distance away however when I 445 00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:37,119 spoke to the Navajo and again in an 446 00:18:40,259 --> 00:18:38,320 official capacity because there's no 447 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:40,269 Navajo really in Utah until you kind of 448 00:18:44,609 --> 00:18:42,129 go deep into the southern section of 449 00:18:47,729 --> 00:18:44,619 Utah which is again 400 miles away from 450 00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:47,739 the ranch the Navajo kind of had a story 451 00:18:50,399 --> 00:18:48,820 where you know 452 00:18:53,009 --> 00:18:50,409 yeah skinwalkers are a part of our 453 00:18:55,529 --> 00:18:53,019 culture and they're not for the youth 454 00:18:58,950 --> 00:18:55,539 you don't have skinwalkers in in there 455 00:18:59,940 --> 00:18:58,960 mythological folklore I guess or in 456 00:19:01,979 --> 00:18:59,950 their in their religion 457 00:19:03,539 --> 00:19:01,989 skinwalkers are predominately Navajo 458 00:19:04,769 --> 00:19:03,549 thing the Navajo said you know we do 459 00:19:07,799 --> 00:19:04,779 have a lot of stories of skinwalkers we 460 00:19:11,609 --> 00:19:07,809 do have a lot of oral traditions of when 461 00:19:13,019 --> 00:19:11,619 the sort of the newcomers from from the 462 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:13,029 United States started showing up right 463 00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:14,830 like the the the settlers moving from 464 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:17,080 the east into the West into the United 465 00:19:20,219 --> 00:19:18,849 States you know there were a lot of 466 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:20,229 instances we have in the oral tradition 467 00:19:26,219 --> 00:19:22,090 where you know these were desperate 468 00:19:28,229 --> 00:19:26,229 times so you know the Navajo would rely 469 00:19:31,049 --> 00:19:28,239 on desperate measures sometimes in order 470 00:19:34,109 --> 00:19:31,059 to try and hold on to what was theirs 471 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:34,119 and and the skinwalker was was sort of 472 00:19:39,389 --> 00:19:36,129 one of those very desperate measures 473 00:19:42,479 --> 00:19:39,399 that were occasionally and rarely taken 474 00:19:44,399 --> 00:19:42,489 but were taken in sort of oral stories 475 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:44,409 told by the Navajo so she said you know 476 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:48,129 it possible that the UN - Basin was 477 00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:50,950 cursed by the Navajo with a skinwalker 478 00:19:57,370 --> 00:19:54,200 you know it's possible she said 479 00:19:59,710 --> 00:19:57,380 it's we don't know for sure but it's 480 00:20:01,690 --> 00:19:59,720 possible so I sort of rested it on that 481 00:20:04,810 --> 00:20:01,700 because really the big answers nobody 482 00:20:07,930 --> 00:20:04,820 actually knows very much about sort of 483 00:20:09,970 --> 00:20:07,940 the skinwalker idea in the base in 484 00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:09,980 itself so it's an interesting kind of 485 00:20:15,550 --> 00:20:12,320 weird mystery um and I'm not really sure 486 00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:15,560 if we're gonna get to any real answer 487 00:20:20,350 --> 00:20:18,950 here because a lot of people don't talk 488 00:20:22,270 --> 00:20:20,360 about it either and I think that's kind 489 00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:22,280 of a big part of it 490 00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:24,080 that being said people do have a lot of 491 00:20:28,540 --> 00:20:25,520 stories in the basement of weird events 492 00:20:30,250 --> 00:20:28,550 so I think you know we need to sort of 493 00:20:32,860 --> 00:20:30,260 separate maybe these two ideas I think 494 00:20:35,290 --> 00:20:32,870 maybe separating the the skinwalker the 495 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:35,300 Navajo skinwalkers mythologies sort of 496 00:20:39,490 --> 00:20:37,730 keep put that in one pile and then the 497 00:20:41,290 --> 00:20:39,500 weird events on the on the ranch or in 498 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:41,300 the basin that's sort of a separate pile 499 00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:43,130 and we just need to kind of understand 500 00:20:48,250 --> 00:20:45,260 that the the link between them is very 501 00:20:49,930 --> 00:20:48,260 tenuous so I would just sort of that's 502 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:49,940 that's how it concluded that statement 503 00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:52,130 that's good man it's just like us 504 00:20:59,290 --> 00:20:55,360 spending most of our time separating the 505 00:21:01,510 --> 00:20:59,300 UFO from the alien I mean there could be 506 00:21:05,710 --> 00:21:01,520 all different phenomena happening not 507 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:05,720 because of this skinwalker lore but you 508 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:07,610 did mention you know people don't want 509 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:10,610 to talk about it and make the findings 510 00:21:14,530 --> 00:21:12,530 public or even what's going on there and 511 00:21:16,660 --> 00:21:14,540 that came in the form of Bigelow we 512 00:21:19,330 --> 00:21:16,670 never found out really what was going on 513 00:21:22,450 --> 00:21:19,340 when he was when he owned the ranch but 514 00:21:24,820 --> 00:21:22,460 uh you know under under this new owner 515 00:21:26,830 --> 00:21:24,830 who remains anonymous that was kind of 516 00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:26,840 you know the deal you made with him you 517 00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:29,540 would not reveal his his identity and 518 00:21:33,310 --> 00:21:31,700 he'd let you on to the ranch there were 519 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:33,320 some people who were willing to come 520 00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:35,570 forward and say I look I'm working there 521 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:37,750 I'm working at the ranch I'm doing 522 00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:40,730 experiments and we're investigating so 523 00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:43,160 who were these individuals that you met 524 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:45,560 with at the ranch who actually went on 525 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:48,530 the record and what sort of studies are 526 00:21:52,420 --> 00:21:50,570 they doing they're now at the ranch this 527 00:21:54,970 --> 00:21:52,430 is like sure none of us really know what 528 00:21:58,530 --> 00:21:54,980 what's going on there but you you got to 529 00:22:04,360 --> 00:21:58,540 see it firsthand it's crazy yeah it's 530 00:22:07,779 --> 00:22:04,370 the vast majority good sized group of 531 00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:07,789 people working on it so the there's 532 00:22:12,249 --> 00:22:09,700 to people who live on the ranch 533 00:22:15,159 --> 00:22:12,259 full-time it's their home 534 00:22:17,049 --> 00:22:15,169 Candace Lind and Tom Lewis they they 535 00:22:20,139 --> 00:22:17,059 live on the ranch full-time it's it's 536 00:22:22,690 --> 00:22:20,149 basically they take care of it 537 00:22:24,969 --> 00:22:22,700 really great couple you know they love 538 00:22:27,310 --> 00:22:24,979 it there and they spoke to me about sort 539 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:27,320 of their feeling on the ranch being that 540 00:22:34,509 --> 00:22:29,570 they live on it full-time the the 541 00:22:37,629 --> 00:22:34,519 overall feeling I guess is is at least 542 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:37,639 for for Tom and Candice the ranch is a 543 00:22:42,580 --> 00:22:40,129 sort of they were they kind of refer to 544 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:42,590 it as being alive they don't mean it in 545 00:22:47,589 --> 00:22:44,690 a literal sense like it's not like it's 546 00:22:49,299 --> 00:22:47,599 some living entity but they kind of have 547 00:22:52,269 --> 00:22:49,309 like you know it's a piece of land that 548 00:22:54,249 --> 00:22:52,279 has a feeling to it right and they can 549 00:22:56,379 --> 00:22:54,259 they've been living on it now for about 550 00:22:58,060 --> 00:22:56,389 I think eight months or so they can 551 00:23:00,609 --> 00:22:58,070 they've kind of figured out the ranch 552 00:23:03,249 --> 00:23:00,619 has moods I guess you could sort of 553 00:23:05,409 --> 00:23:03,259 describe it as right a lot of strange 554 00:23:06,639 --> 00:23:05,419 maybe odd things start happening they 555 00:23:08,289 --> 00:23:06,649 just kind of get the gut feeling maybe 556 00:23:10,060 --> 00:23:08,299 we should just take off and they kind of 557 00:23:11,589 --> 00:23:10,070 you know they'll take a day or two off 558 00:23:12,999 --> 00:23:11,599 they'll go to town and they'll you know 559 00:23:14,139 --> 00:23:13,009 check in a hotel and they'll take some 560 00:23:15,789 --> 00:23:14,149 time that was shopping maybe in Salt 561 00:23:16,930 --> 00:23:15,799 Lake City and you know they'll step away 562 00:23:18,729 --> 00:23:16,940 from the ranch for a few days and then 563 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:18,739 they come back and they've got you know 564 00:23:21,460 --> 00:23:20,090 obviously other you know think about 565 00:23:22,659 --> 00:23:21,470 they've got lives of their own so 566 00:23:24,879 --> 00:23:22,669 sometimes they get away for work or 567 00:23:26,409 --> 00:23:24,889 whatever so they're kind of the live-in 568 00:23:29,859 --> 00:23:26,419 caretakers they're there all the time 569 00:23:32,109 --> 00:23:29,869 except once in a while one person who 570 00:23:34,269 --> 00:23:32,119 who I met in Salt Lake City who's a 571 00:23:36,129 --> 00:23:34,279 friend of theirs and a friend of the 572 00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:36,139 owner sort of described the ranch it's a 573 00:23:41,139 --> 00:23:39,200 sort of like a beehive if if you if you 574 00:23:43,930 --> 00:23:41,149 leave the Beehive alone or you respect 575 00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:43,940 it the bees are fine and they just mind 576 00:23:47,289 --> 00:23:45,830 its own business if you kind of start 577 00:23:50,649 --> 00:23:47,299 poking the Beehive a little bit or you 578 00:23:51,789 --> 00:23:50,659 get too close to it it comes alive right 579 00:23:53,769 --> 00:23:51,799 in the and the bees will get very 580 00:23:55,749 --> 00:23:53,779 frustrated with you so I was sort of 581 00:23:57,039 --> 00:23:55,759 their description but they're gonna have 582 00:23:58,960 --> 00:23:57,049 a very different philosophy because 583 00:24:02,560 --> 00:23:58,970 ultimately they have to live on it so 584 00:24:05,169 --> 00:24:02,570 that's their interpretation the the key 585 00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:05,179 sort of player in all this at least on 586 00:24:11,379 --> 00:24:07,190 the science front is a gentleman named 587 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:11,389 Eric bard really amazing individual this 588 00:24:17,529 --> 00:24:14,330 guy can build anything like electronic 589 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:17,539 or like scientific equipment this guy is 590 00:24:22,380 --> 00:24:21,010 Jam he is sort of the Prince of 591 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:22,390 investigator on the wrench he is a 592 00:24:29,250 --> 00:24:25,990 background in physics he is a partner in 593 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:29,260 a company that provides angelic 594 00:24:36,060 --> 00:24:31,930 equipment to to place like NASA and 595 00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:36,070 other US National Labs and and this is 596 00:24:42,810 --> 00:24:39,820 sort of become his his baby 2016 onward 597 00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:42,820 he was brought in and and basically sort 598 00:24:49,650 --> 00:24:46,150 of given the task of your job is to 599 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:49,660 observe the ranch all the time and and 600 00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:51,730 what he's done is he's created a very 601 00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:54,430 complicated and intricate and elegant 602 00:25:00,570 --> 00:24:58,480 network of video cameras EMF monitoring 603 00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:00,580 stations weather monitoring radio 604 00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:04,000 monitoring stations transponder 605 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:05,950 monitoring stations for aircraft and 606 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:08,770 it's all interconnected so he's built 607 00:25:16,410 --> 00:25:13,090 this complicated observation system for 608 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:16,420 the ranch the ranch is basically most of 609 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:18,510 it is is under constant surveillance and 610 00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:21,130 and basically anytime anything happens 611 00:25:25,980 --> 00:25:24,550 on the ranch he knows about it he 612 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:25,990 jokingly calls the ranch 613 00:25:30,270 --> 00:25:28,690 Eden and he sort of you know again 614 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:30,280 comically kind of you know explained you 615 00:25:34,020 --> 00:25:32,050 know I I have my eyes everywhere I'm 616 00:25:36,270 --> 00:25:34,030 like God and and there's like you know I 617 00:25:38,910 --> 00:25:36,280 can keep track of Adam and Eve and the 618 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:38,920 devil at all at all moments right so so 619 00:25:44,010 --> 00:25:40,570 he's a very interesting character and 620 00:25:46,140 --> 00:25:44,020 and he's he's he's very humble and he's 621 00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:46,150 also probably one of the most rational 622 00:25:49,470 --> 00:25:47,710 people I have ever met 623 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:49,480 I mean I sort of flat out asked him I 624 00:25:52,860 --> 00:25:50,650 mean listen I said you're a scientist 625 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:52,870 you work on this weird paranormal ranch 626 00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:54,490 like what do you think about this and he 627 00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:55,750 said well okay first of all you know 628 00:25:59,040 --> 00:25:57,580 paranormal isn't actually the word I 629 00:26:00,300 --> 00:25:59,050 would use right you know he says the 630 00:26:03,090 --> 00:26:00,310 ranch has anomalies 631 00:26:04,290 --> 00:26:03,100 science has anomalies we're just trying 632 00:26:06,990 --> 00:26:04,300 to figure out what these anomalies are 633 00:26:08,550 --> 00:26:07,000 and and ultimately that's his project 634 00:26:10,890 --> 00:26:08,560 and at this point they're not doing 635 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:10,900 testing so I think we need to be really 636 00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,170 clear when Bigelow ran the wrench pre 637 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:17,200 2016 the vast majority of his staff did 638 00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:19,930 testing so they would leave random 639 00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:22,180 objects lying around and toys and and 640 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:26,320 and magnetic sort of games in an attempt 641 00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,570 to communicate with whatever they 642 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:30,400 believed was on the wrench and they 643 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:31,810 believed it was some sort of entity 644 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:34,090 right like they're the Bigelow project 645 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:34,730 was very much 646 00:26:39,549 --> 00:26:36,890 concerned with proving that there was an 647 00:26:43,330 --> 00:26:39,559 intelligence present on the ranch 648 00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:43,340 Eric bards philosophy or his project is 649 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:45,350 very different he is here just to 650 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:47,570 observe to track all of the anomalies 651 00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:49,850 and see if there's a pattern and 652 00:26:53,380 --> 00:26:51,590 basically with that pattern we can then 653 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:53,390 move forward with a theory or a 654 00:26:58,030 --> 00:26:55,490 hypothesis a hypothesis and then a 655 00:27:01,090 --> 00:26:58,040 theory as to what's may be going on here 656 00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:01,100 right so they've logged a good chunk of 657 00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,340 odd occurrences you know from people 658 00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:06,799 seeing strange things people 659 00:27:11,940 --> 00:27:09,110 experiencing injuries massive 660 00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,950 fluctuations in electromagnetic fields 661 00:27:15,490 --> 00:27:14,000 to the point where sometimes it's 662 00:27:17,860 --> 00:27:15,500 incredibly dangerous to humans like 663 00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:17,870 you're like you're being cooked so so 664 00:27:22,419 --> 00:27:20,870 they have all this stuff and and you 665 00:27:24,390 --> 00:27:22,429 know it all kind of clumps together in 666 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:24,400 datasets right so we have this sort of 667 00:27:28,860 --> 00:27:26,450 you know somebody sees something strange 668 00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:28,870 we cross-check it with the flight 669 00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:30,710 transponders we cross-check it with the 670 00:27:34,810 --> 00:27:32,840 EMF we cross-check it with any tectonic 671 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:34,820 activity and whatever and and if it all 672 00:27:39,220 --> 00:27:37,370 kind of culminates into okay at exactly 673 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:39,230 this moment you had four people see 674 00:27:43,450 --> 00:27:41,450 something one person felt sick you had 675 00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:43,460 the EMF detectors going crazy we feel 676 00:27:48,010 --> 00:27:45,110 had tectonic vibrations infrasonic 677 00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:48,020 vibrations occurring and the cows were 678 00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:50,000 going nuts something weird happened 679 00:27:53,740 --> 00:27:52,370 right because then it went away so what 680 00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:53,750 was that right and they've got some 681 00:27:58,150 --> 00:27:55,760 multiple instances of these or you have 682 00:28:01,570 --> 00:27:58,160 multiple weird moments happening 683 00:28:02,289 --> 00:28:01,580 unfortunately for Eric is these kind of 684 00:28:03,669 --> 00:28:02,299 says you know we just don't have enough 685 00:28:05,260 --> 00:28:03,679 data yet so we've been doing this for 686 00:28:07,659 --> 00:28:05,270 roughly two years but there's just not 687 00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:07,669 enough of it to come up with some sort 688 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:09,980 of conclusive you know it happens every 689 00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:11,450 Wednesday at 2:00 p.m. kind of thing 690 00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:12,470 right like there's there's just not 691 00:28:18,340 --> 00:28:15,380 enough data to just make a conclusion 692 00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:18,350 yet so his project is continuing observe 693 00:28:23,890 --> 00:28:20,870 the ranch collect data that's all we can 694 00:28:28,210 --> 00:28:23,900 do at this point I have to ask it did it 695 00:28:29,409 --> 00:28:28,220 ever come up that being like sort of one 696 00:28:31,620 --> 00:28:29,419 of these scientists working on the 697 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:31,630 wrench.now did he ever 698 00:28:37,450 --> 00:28:35,030 converse with those who worked with bass 699 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:37,460 or does he have any of the data or 700 00:28:42,159 --> 00:28:40,490 information that Bigelow had when he was 701 00:28:44,289 --> 00:28:42,169 there is that something they would pass 702 00:28:46,570 --> 00:28:44,299 on to the new owners or the new people 703 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:46,580 working there or is this is completely 704 00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:47,810 separate and work 705 00:28:52,450 --> 00:28:50,720 is starting from scratch yeah and 706 00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,460 unfortunately you know in hindsight I 707 00:28:55,660 --> 00:28:53,600 wish I put that in the article but I 708 00:28:57,820 --> 00:28:55,670 actually didn't and and and like I'm 709 00:29:00,040 --> 00:28:57,830 kicking myself now so for the record 710 00:29:02,170 --> 00:29:00,050 I'll stay it on your show when Bigelow 711 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:02,180 sold the property he handed them the 712 00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,050 keys and that was it there was there was 713 00:29:10,660 --> 00:29:08,720 a conversation between Bigelow and the 714 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:10,670 current owner they spent the day 715 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:13,130 together talking about sort of the ranch 716 00:29:21,070 --> 00:29:16,490 and other things but none of the data 717 00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:21,080 from the AUSA bass study went to the new 718 00:29:27,310 --> 00:29:24,590 owner so so they're starting basically 719 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:27,320 from scratch III think there's some 720 00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:29,630 hesitation as well because I I don't 721 00:29:35,110 --> 00:29:31,880 know necessarily if the current ranch 722 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:35,120 team necessarily views some of the data 723 00:29:39,310 --> 00:29:37,730 you know as being from from the past 724 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:39,320 days as being sort of totally legitimate 725 00:29:44,140 --> 00:29:42,530 right so so I was speaking to Brian 726 00:29:46,390 --> 00:29:44,150 Arnold who's the security guard at the 727 00:29:47,950 --> 00:29:46,400 ranch and he sort of informed me you 728 00:29:50,050 --> 00:29:47,960 know when they first got there there 729 00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:50,060 were these sort of glass boxes 730 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:52,840 everywhere and inside were or toys 731 00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:55,490 blocks like the ABC blocks that you give 732 00:30:00,880 --> 00:29:58,330 to babies you know very sort of magnetic 733 00:30:03,070 --> 00:30:00,890 sort of sticky letters that could be 734 00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:03,080 moved around and you know they very 735 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:04,640 quickly got the impression like okay 736 00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:07,310 these guys in the bass era we're trying 737 00:30:11,890 --> 00:30:10,640 to communicate with this and the entity 738 00:30:13,870 --> 00:30:11,900 on the ranch I guess you could refer to 739 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:13,880 it right the intelligence so there were 740 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:15,890 all these kind of toys lying around in 741 00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:19,730 these weird fish tanks basically and 742 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:22,190 they very quickly tore them down and and 743 00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:23,330 they were like you know listen you're 744 00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:24,320 dealing with stuff that can potentially 745 00:30:27,910 --> 00:30:26,270 injure people like why are you giving it 746 00:30:30,790 --> 00:30:27,920 baby toys to play with right like this 747 00:30:34,540 --> 00:30:30,800 to them the new team was sort of this 748 00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:34,550 was really strange I think maybe to some 749 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:36,040 of them was sort of very unscientific 750 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:38,570 you know I mean you haven't proven there 751 00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:40,730 is an entity so why are trying to 752 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:43,040 communicate with it right the the 753 00:30:45,490 --> 00:30:44,570 current project is is we don't know 754 00:30:48,430 --> 00:30:45,500 what's going on right the current 755 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:48,440 project isn't to prove that that there 756 00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:49,970 is some intelligence on the ranch the 757 00:30:53,170 --> 00:30:51,590 current project is just simply observe 758 00:30:55,390 --> 00:30:53,180 the ranch because of the reported 759 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:55,400 phenomenon or the reported phenomena 760 00:31:00,310 --> 00:30:58,490 that occur there we can start making you 761 00:31:01,540 --> 00:31:00,320 know speculative guesses as to what it 762 00:31:03,340 --> 00:31:01,550 is later 763 00:31:06,220 --> 00:31:03,350 once we have the data because right now 764 00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:06,230 we just don't so this is this was sort 765 00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:09,200 of the the big reveal I guess that that 766 00:31:15,820 --> 00:31:11,270 never made into the article but no um 767 00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:15,830 bass still has all of its data and it is 768 00:31:19,780 --> 00:31:17,270 not really bound to share it with 769 00:31:22,930 --> 00:31:19,790 anybody and I don't think it's ever 770 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:22,940 going to so so I think that all of the 771 00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:25,610 data from the knids vast days that stuff 772 00:31:30,130 --> 00:31:28,310 is locked up and and it's gone like it's 773 00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:30,140 it's it will never see the light of day 774 00:31:33,790 --> 00:31:32,240 at least not currently you know I mean 775 00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:33,800 it's gonna take a miracle to get it out 776 00:31:37,260 --> 00:31:35,780 of there yeah I don't see that happening 777 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:37,270 anytime soon 778 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:39,050 especially when you have former 779 00:31:44,110 --> 00:31:42,770 employees making claims that and I got 780 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:44,120 it I want to get your opinion on this 781 00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:47,810 that they were actually the test 782 00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:50,720 subjects they were the ones being tested 783 00:31:55,150 --> 00:31:52,070 on the wrench what do you make of this 784 00:31:57,010 --> 00:31:55,160 whole idea um several researchers have 785 00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:57,020 brought this forward that the people 786 00:32:01,630 --> 00:31:59,330 working under bass were actually guinea 787 00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:01,640 pigs for whatever paranormal phenomena 788 00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:03,110 is going on there it's hard to put it 789 00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:04,430 into words but yeah what do you make of 790 00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:04,880 all that 791 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:06,830 yeah well you know it's interesting I 792 00:32:10,570 --> 00:32:08,930 don't think it's beyond the realm of 793 00:32:11,950 --> 00:32:10,580 possible yeah there's there's two claims 794 00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:11,960 and I want to be really clear and 795 00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:13,400 differentiate them here 796 00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:15,350 I think it's within the realm of 797 00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:17,800 possibility that during the past days 798 00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:21,350 the idea and and this has been sort of 799 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:23,600 proposed by by a lot of people you know 800 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:25,370 Colonel John Alexander for example 801 00:32:31,150 --> 00:32:28,610 mentioned this in one of his talks that 802 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:31,160 that the the you know and again there's 803 00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:34,250 this belief that the ranch is home to 804 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:37,040 some intelligent entity that this thing 805 00:32:41,260 --> 00:32:38,930 is sort of like it 806 00:32:42,790 --> 00:32:41,270 it has precognition and it knows about 807 00:32:45,220 --> 00:32:42,800 the people coming on the ranch or 808 00:32:46,620 --> 00:32:45,230 whatever so the idea that an individual 809 00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:46,630 when they step on the ranch the 810 00:32:51,820 --> 00:32:49,190 intelligence on the ranch will will will 811 00:32:54,190 --> 00:32:51,830 sort of look at that individual and 812 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:54,200 decide how to react to it right or react 813 00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:57,650 to them I can see in the bass era that 814 00:33:01,090 --> 00:32:59,600 being a thing so I can see the bass team 815 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:01,100 being ok let's put a bunch of guys on 816 00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:03,050 the ranch and see what happens and then 817 00:33:06,460 --> 00:33:04,880 if nothing happens we pull them out and 818 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:06,470 we put a new bunch of guys on the ranch 819 00:33:12,810 --> 00:33:09,890 or we swap people out right and and the 820 00:33:15,010 --> 00:33:12,820 people on the wrench become the sort of 821 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:15,020 the to use the word guinea pigs is 822 00:33:18,190 --> 00:33:15,440 interesting 823 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:18,200 - you - they become kind of that which 824 00:33:22,509 --> 00:33:20,090 motivates the ranch to behave in 825 00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:22,519 whatever way they're trying to have it 826 00:33:27,310 --> 00:33:24,950 behave I can see that being a legitimate 827 00:33:29,409 --> 00:33:27,320 sort of bass idea I mean let's be honest 828 00:33:32,649 --> 00:33:29,419 Robert Bigelow is an interesting 829 00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,659 character we know a lot about his 830 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:34,159 business dealings we've had a lot of 831 00:33:36,970 --> 00:33:35,330 testimony from people who used to work 832 00:33:38,889 --> 00:33:36,980 at Bigelow Aerospace and the conditions 833 00:33:40,869 --> 00:33:38,899 that they've worked under are incredibly 834 00:33:44,490 --> 00:33:40,879 stressful they signed very complicated 835 00:33:47,860 --> 00:33:44,500 NDA's I mean he's a generally a fairly 836 00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:47,870 paranoid individual so so could this be 837 00:33:53,049 --> 00:33:50,240 is this within the realm of his thinking 838 00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:53,059 maybe the other theory that I've heard 839 00:33:57,639 --> 00:33:55,580 is that it was a weapons test site so 840 00:33:59,710 --> 00:33:57,649 bass AUSA 841 00:34:03,759 --> 00:33:59,720 all of that skinwalker ranch was 842 00:34:06,730 --> 00:34:03,769 basically a sham designed to put people 843 00:34:09,669 --> 00:34:06,740 into an area in the middle of nowhere 844 00:34:12,369 --> 00:34:09,679 and then have Bigelow or some other 845 00:34:14,169 --> 00:34:12,379 contractor test weapons on those people 846 00:34:16,329 --> 00:34:14,179 so like weapons made in the United 847 00:34:19,869 --> 00:34:16,339 States of America to be tested illegally 848 00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:19,879 on American citizens that I've heard as 849 00:34:25,450 --> 00:34:22,399 well and and I think that's a bit of a 850 00:34:29,859 --> 00:34:25,460 stretch only because there's no evidence 851 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:29,869 to really prove that occurred so maybe 852 00:34:35,319 --> 00:34:33,290 it did and and you know maybe the ranch 853 00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:35,329 is also haunted by a giant spaghetti 854 00:34:39,819 --> 00:34:38,089 monster I mean it's possible but it 855 00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:39,829 doesn't mean it's true and I think we 856 00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:41,240 need to be really cautious because I'm 857 00:34:44,109 --> 00:34:42,710 not really willing to really go down 858 00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:44,119 that road like I'm not willing to go 859 00:34:50,859 --> 00:34:47,030 down the road to say that the the ranch 860 00:34:53,980 --> 00:34:50,869 was an illegal test site where where the 861 00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:53,990 American military or private military 862 00:35:02,920 --> 00:34:59,060 contractors were firing non-lethal you 863 00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:02,930 know ray guns at American citizens like 864 00:35:07,569 --> 00:35:04,609 I just I don't know it's it's a little 865 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:07,579 out there I think and we have to be 866 00:35:10,990 --> 00:35:08,810 really cautious you can't just kind of 867 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:11,000 start throwing on the internet that this 868 00:35:14,109 --> 00:35:12,290 stuff's happening and saying it's true 869 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:14,119 because that's a great way to get like 870 00:35:19,359 --> 00:35:17,089 slap with a lawsuit and and definitely 871 00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:19,369 as a journalist I would never make the 872 00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:20,720 claim that that like you know Robert 873 00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:23,630 Bigelow purposefully you know tested 874 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:26,480 weapons on American citizens unless I 875 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:28,970 had really strong compelling evidence 876 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:30,410 to prove it was the case right because 877 00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:31,130 that would just be completely 878 00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:35,510 irresponsible as a journalist so I want 879 00:35:40,570 --> 00:35:37,520 to be really careful and cautious you 880 00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:40,580 know were the the people on the ranch 881 00:35:44,770 --> 00:35:42,260 during the past days sort of guinea pigs 882 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:44,780 for something I don't know is it 883 00:35:47,290 --> 00:35:46,130 possible they were sort of used like 884 00:35:48,670 --> 00:35:47,300 there's something paranormal on the 885 00:35:50,530 --> 00:35:48,680 ranch so let's put guys on the ranch and 886 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:50,540 see what happens yeah sure maybe 887 00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,010 paranormal stuff doesn't typically 888 00:35:55,870 --> 00:35:54,560 happen if there's no one around so he 889 00:35:58,060 --> 00:35:55,880 needs someone around I guess a good 890 00:36:01,180 --> 00:35:58,070 point right if a tree falls in the 891 00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:01,190 forest always yeah if you know if yeah 892 00:36:06,099 --> 00:36:03,320 if there's no one to see a UFO is there 893 00:36:08,099 --> 00:36:06,109 a UFO so yeah it's it's it's really 894 00:36:10,839 --> 00:36:08,109 that's sort of the big question 895 00:36:13,330 --> 00:36:10,849 currently under 20 in the 2016 the 896 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:13,340 current ownership that's not at all sort 897 00:36:19,089 --> 00:36:17,330 of in the plan like there's no real idea 898 00:36:22,830 --> 00:36:19,099 or notion that like the people are 899 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:22,840 guinea pigs the the staff do where 900 00:36:28,270 --> 00:36:25,490 they're like fitbit's like heart rate 901 00:36:29,859 --> 00:36:28,280 monitors and and just sort of trackers 902 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:29,869 right like when they're on the ranch and 903 00:36:36,190 --> 00:36:33,650 it just logs heart rate blood pressure 904 00:36:37,540 --> 00:36:36,200 that type of stuff and again it's it's 905 00:36:39,099 --> 00:36:37,550 simple you know if somebody has a 906 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:39,109 strange experience or they see something 907 00:36:43,390 --> 00:36:41,690 what's their body doing during that 908 00:36:45,220 --> 00:36:43,400 moment right so what's their heart rate 909 00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:45,230 what's their blood pressure so that is 910 00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:47,599 sort of occurring on the ranch currently 911 00:36:52,270 --> 00:36:49,760 but it's also kind of a safety protocol 912 00:36:54,730 --> 00:36:52,280 I think the ranch is a big place so if 913 00:36:56,650 --> 00:36:54,740 you have someone way out you know on the 914 00:37:00,400 --> 00:36:56,660 south side of the ranch which is quite 915 00:37:02,380 --> 00:37:00,410 far away from from the main area and 916 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:02,390 suddenly their blood pressure drops you 917 00:37:05,380 --> 00:37:03,890 know they could have passed out you know 918 00:37:07,060 --> 00:37:05,390 what I mean and they're really far away 919 00:37:09,370 --> 00:37:07,070 and and you know you need to get 920 00:37:11,859 --> 00:37:09,380 potentially you know EMS out there as 921 00:37:15,310 --> 00:37:11,869 quick as possible so that that's kind of 922 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:15,320 part of it but apart from that yeah 923 00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:16,970 that's kind of the extent of what 924 00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:18,830 they're up to and I mean that's sort I 925 00:37:24,220 --> 00:37:20,960 think where we can we can leave it in 926 00:37:25,839 --> 00:37:24,230 terms of skinwalker ranches we we don't 927 00:37:27,970 --> 00:37:25,849 know we're dealing with I don't think 928 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:27,980 anyone who studied it truly does and 929 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:30,410 we're all guinea pigs to the phenomena 930 00:37:35,410 --> 00:37:32,890 so I mean that's that's what it is so 931 00:37:37,390 --> 00:37:35,420 there's some amazing stories that I 932 00:37:40,839 --> 00:37:37,400 think some of the people working on the 933 00:37:42,550 --> 00:37:40,849 ranch had to tell in your article but we 934 00:37:42,819 --> 00:37:42,560 will leave that to the reader to check 935 00:37:44,919 --> 00:37:42,829 though 936 00:37:47,919 --> 00:37:44,929 but kind of wrapping up the skinwalker 937 00:37:50,650 --> 00:37:47,929 part MJ um what did you sort of what was 938 00:37:52,660 --> 00:37:50,660 your your impression leaving the place I 939 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:52,670 mean did your your thoughts or opinions 940 00:37:57,819 --> 00:37:55,249 change at all did you have anything that 941 00:38:00,609 --> 00:37:57,829 kind of really piqued your interest or 942 00:38:01,809 --> 00:38:00,619 yeah in any way what was that like what 943 00:38:03,749 --> 00:38:01,819 was how did you come out on the other 944 00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:03,759 side 945 00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:07,369 in reality UFOs are seen by people from 946 00:38:10,509 --> 00:38:09,140 all walks of life every day all around 947 00:38:12,189 --> 00:38:10,519 the world they've also been officially 948 00:38:13,299 --> 00:38:12,199 investigated by the US government and by 949 00:38:15,189 --> 00:38:13,309 governments of several other countries 950 00:38:16,749 --> 00:38:15,199 too that's just a small element of what 951 00:38:18,370 --> 00:38:16,759 makes the strange UFO topic so 952 00:38:20,140 --> 00:38:18,380 incredibly fascinating and fun to 953 00:38:22,509 --> 00:38:20,150 explore that's what we do on the UFO 954 00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,519 podcast unknown I'm Jason McClellan and 955 00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:24,079 I invite you to explore the weird and 956 00:38:27,219 --> 00:38:25,880 wonderful world of UFOs with me and my 957 00:38:29,109 --> 00:38:27,229 friends and colleagues on unknown 958 00:38:30,519 --> 00:38:29,119 unknown is available on Apple podcast 959 00:38:38,009 --> 00:38:30,529 Google Play stitcher I Heart Radio 960 00:38:46,349 --> 00:38:41,439 the main thing was I was really 961 00:38:49,029 --> 00:38:46,359 surprised one at how like rational 962 00:38:50,949 --> 00:38:49,039 everyone was right like you you you 963 00:38:52,839 --> 00:38:50,959 expect that that people who work on the 964 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:52,849 ranch would be a little you know like 965 00:38:56,410 --> 00:38:54,890 they would be into the UFO thing or they 966 00:38:57,969 --> 00:38:56,420 would be into the paranormal thing or 967 00:39:01,449 --> 00:38:57,979 they would sort of be people like us 968 00:39:03,390 --> 00:39:01,459 right who-who have some sort of already 969 00:39:07,179 --> 00:39:03,400 well-established 970 00:39:09,039 --> 00:39:07,189 basis and interest and and and sort of 971 00:39:11,739 --> 00:39:09,049 entrenched you know you fo logical or 972 00:39:13,620 --> 00:39:11,749 paranormal idea in them right and 973 00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:13,630 they're not these are just normal people 974 00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:17,150 who work on and and live on this ranch 975 00:39:21,339 --> 00:39:19,880 and and they're just kind of doing a job 976 00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:21,349 or or they're doing it because they love 977 00:39:26,589 --> 00:39:24,079 it and and and that's it it was it was 978 00:39:28,329 --> 00:39:26,599 weird to have that um all of you this is 979 00:39:30,729 --> 00:39:28,339 this is what I'm trying to get to in the 980 00:39:33,309 --> 00:39:30,739 long way all of the stories and the 981 00:39:35,259 --> 00:39:33,319 mythology the stuff from knids the stuff 982 00:39:38,579 --> 00:39:35,269 from the book and the documentary hunt 983 00:39:44,049 --> 00:39:38,589 for the skinwalker all of that very 984 00:39:48,249 --> 00:39:44,059 speculative mythological incredibly sort 985 00:39:53,319 --> 00:39:48,259 of magical stuff is really just stories 986 00:39:56,650 --> 00:39:53,329 and we need to approach skinwalker ranch 987 00:39:58,569 --> 00:39:56,660 as a place that's housed 988 00:40:02,740 --> 00:39:58,579 lot of myth and a lot of stories in the 989 00:40:04,569 --> 00:40:02,750 last few decades but the the work that's 990 00:40:06,730 --> 00:40:04,579 being done there the science is being 991 00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:06,740 done there is not about those stories 992 00:40:12,609 --> 00:40:10,910 right it's not about those myths so when 993 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:12,619 you when you think about what they're 994 00:40:16,270 --> 00:40:13,130 doing 995 00:40:19,839 --> 00:40:16,280 it is a scientific project it's not 996 00:40:23,289 --> 00:40:19,849 designed in any way to prove that you 997 00:40:27,339 --> 00:40:23,299 know monsters exist it's it's designed 998 00:40:31,089 --> 00:40:27,349 to simply catalog any anomalies that 999 00:40:34,329 --> 00:40:31,099 occur on the ranch purely free from the 1000 00:40:36,549 --> 00:40:34,339 weird bizarre stories and I think I 1001 00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:36,559 walked away wanting to tell that story 1002 00:40:40,539 --> 00:40:38,000 or that that narrative because 1003 00:40:43,359 --> 00:40:40,549 ultimately we have a lot of people who 1004 00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:43,369 are willing to push the more 1005 00:40:50,829 --> 00:40:46,960 mythological and more paranormal aspects 1006 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:50,839 because it sells and and what they're 1007 00:40:55,299 --> 00:40:52,730 doing is not necessarily something that 1008 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:55,309 that that sort of sells right if they're 1009 00:41:00,609 --> 00:40:57,890 doing science and and a lot of times the 1010 00:41:03,130 --> 00:41:00,619 science is more boring than the stories 1011 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:03,140 of wolves and and portals and and 1012 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:05,410 mysterious creatures emerging from them 1013 00:41:11,950 --> 00:41:08,690 so yeah that was kind of the walk away 1014 00:41:14,829 --> 00:41:11,960 right there's a lot of stories and and 1015 00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:14,839 we need to kind of put those in in one 1016 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:18,230 category and then what actually is 1017 00:41:23,019 --> 00:41:19,970 happening on the ranch on a daily basis 1018 00:41:23,859 --> 00:41:23,029 is is a different category and we need 1019 00:41:26,829 --> 00:41:23,869 to kind of keep those two things 1020 00:41:29,349 --> 00:41:26,839 separate absolutely you know if they if 1021 00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:29,359 they cross paths eventually good but if 1022 00:41:33,819 --> 00:41:31,369 not like exactly what it's all about 1023 00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:33,829 yeah well that's it's amazing I'm so 1024 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:35,839 happy you were granted access and you 1025 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:38,450 were able to tell us the grounded story 1026 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:41,690 of what's going on there instead of all 1027 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:44,450 these you know first second third fourth 1028 00:41:48,730 --> 00:41:46,010 fifth hand stories that we've heard 1029 00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:48,740 throughout throughout the year so I love 1030 00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:50,180 it I hope people will check that out and 1031 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:52,730 that is over on vice.com inside 1032 00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:54,890 skinwalker ranch a paranormal hotbed of 1033 00:41:59,799 --> 00:41:57,770 UFO research so people definitely check 1034 00:42:01,059 --> 00:41:59,809 that out I'm gonna take a sip of whiskey 1035 00:42:04,539 --> 00:42:01,069 here because we're gonna move on to 1036 00:42:07,779 --> 00:42:04,549 another company investigating and 1037 00:42:08,910 --> 00:42:07,789 looking into some exotic materials so 1038 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:08,920 here 1039 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:13,010 man I need a drink this one's rougher 1040 00:42:15,070 --> 00:42:13,730 than I thought 1041 00:42:19,620 --> 00:42:15,080 not your article I kept all get my 1042 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:19,630 whiskey the articles very well played 1043 00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:23,090 all right so we're moving on to an 1044 00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:25,580 article he wrote either over at Vice 1045 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:28,070 motherboard and that's UFO researcher 1046 00:42:34,660 --> 00:42:30,650 explains why she sold exotic metal to 1047 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:34,670 Tom DeLonge this yeah this one comes 1048 00:42:39,370 --> 00:42:37,850 from you know the the news that to the 1049 00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:39,380 Stars Academy is now working with the 1050 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:42,320 army another branch of the military you 1051 00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:44,090 know first the Navy now the Army's 1052 00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:45,920 getting involved God knows when the Air 1053 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:48,260 Force is gonna say anything but um yeah 1054 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:50,810 what was this one all about men Windom 1055 00:42:54,970 --> 00:42:52,970 oh and how is connected to this yeah 1056 00:42:56,980 --> 00:42:54,980 yeah give me give this one to me if you 1057 00:42:59,980 --> 00:42:56,990 don't mind talking about metamaterials 1058 00:43:02,770 --> 00:42:59,990 yeah it's it's it's funny the 1059 00:43:04,210 --> 00:43:02,780 metamaterial thing so I guess for for 1060 00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:04,220 the people who are kind of new to this 1061 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:07,390 there's been a lot of movement recently 1062 00:43:13,930 --> 00:43:10,130 in the UFO community about sort of 1063 00:43:15,610 --> 00:43:13,940 exotic metal and alloys and whatever but 1064 00:43:18,670 --> 00:43:15,620 really the stuff dates back to the 70s I 1065 00:43:21,820 --> 00:43:18,680 mean there's been discussion in the UFO 1066 00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:21,830 world about strange pieces of metal that 1067 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:23,870 have been discovered since since the 1068 00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:26,330 seventies you know fallen off the UFOs 1069 00:43:30,370 --> 00:43:28,040 or whatever and and they have sort of 1070 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:30,380 odd properties or strange properties and 1071 00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:34,610 what kind of resurfaced recently was and 1072 00:43:39,850 --> 00:43:36,100 this is the funny thing right because 1073 00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:39,860 very early on I remember there was a 1074 00:43:45,550 --> 00:43:42,710 bunch of stuff it was a 2016 or early 1075 00:43:47,620 --> 00:43:45,560 2017 where where jock valet was doing a 1076 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:47,630 lot of research into meta materials and 1077 00:43:52,420 --> 00:43:49,850 he was working with Gary Nolan and then 1078 00:43:55,090 --> 00:43:52,430 there was you know Linda Moulton Howe 1079 00:43:57,820 --> 00:43:55,100 she had her metamaterial stuff and then 1080 00:43:59,320 --> 00:43:57,830 you had obviously sort of the the TTS a 1081 00:44:00,730 --> 00:43:59,330 crowd kind of rolling out basically 1082 00:44:04,180 --> 00:44:00,740 saying oh we've got some meta materials 1083 00:44:06,910 --> 00:44:04,190 too and and there was kind of this there 1084 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:06,920 was like three or four parties right who 1085 00:44:10,780 --> 00:44:09,770 had meta materials and at first everyone 1086 00:44:12,310 --> 00:44:10,790 kind of thought they were working 1087 00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:12,320 together right there was because Gary 1088 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:15,830 Nolan was part of TTS a valet was kind 1089 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:18,650 of early involved in the TTS a project 1090 00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:20,690 and then kind of quickly left before 1091 00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:22,000 they began but he 1092 00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:23,440 as involved he wrote the foreword for 1093 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:26,110 example - - one of the books so you have 1094 00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:28,930 this this weird conglomeration of 1095 00:44:33,060 --> 00:44:30,550 individuals the sort of invisible 1096 00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:33,070 college as it were who had all these 1097 00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:37,990 strange alleged UFO bits and then 20:17 1098 00:44:43,770 --> 00:44:40,750 happened in - 2018 and they kind of all 1099 00:44:46,110 --> 00:44:43,780 scattered into different directions so I 1100 00:44:48,690 --> 00:44:46,120 think Val a sort of took his mettle and 1101 00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:48,700 went home and I think after a couple 1102 00:44:52,530 --> 00:44:50,950 months you know Gary Nolan followed him 1103 00:44:54,690 --> 00:44:52,540 and then Linda Moulton Howe took her 1104 00:44:56,730 --> 00:44:54,700 mettle and went home did her own thing 1105 00:44:59,790 --> 00:44:56,740 this reminds me of pugs 1106 00:45:01,290 --> 00:44:59,800 I'm not gonna lie it's got mad they took 1107 00:45:02,670 --> 00:45:01,300 their balls and went home right 1108 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:02,680 and then TTS they kind of took their 1109 00:45:06,030 --> 00:45:04,090 medal and won and it was it was 1110 00:45:08,930 --> 00:45:06,040 everyone's kind like yeah these are my 1111 00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,940 you know as it happens with UFOs right 1112 00:45:13,170 --> 00:45:10,960 everyone has their little corner and 1113 00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:13,180 they want to stick to it so so I guess 1114 00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:16,720 what eventually happened was we had this 1115 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:18,430 this history that kind of got presented 1116 00:45:22,170 --> 00:45:20,530 by Linda Moulton Howe that that she was 1117 00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:22,180 working closely with doctor how put off 1118 00:45:28,620 --> 00:45:23,920 as well as a few other scientists in 1119 00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:28,630 about 2012 2010 2009 she had these sort 1120 00:45:33,060 --> 00:45:30,910 of bits of strange metal commonly 1121 00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:33,070 referred to as arts parts because they 1122 00:45:37,620 --> 00:45:35,110 were given to art Bell from coast to 1123 00:45:41,130 --> 00:45:37,630 coast back in the day and there's kind 1124 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:41,140 of a whole weird UFO 1947 crash recovery 1125 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:43,570 story connected to them that can't 1126 00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:46,690 really be sort of objectively proven so 1127 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:48,760 we have to sort of take all that as a 1128 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:50,530 bit of a story at this point we don't 1129 00:45:55,710 --> 00:45:53,770 really have any super nukes evidence yet 1130 00:45:56,700 --> 00:45:55,720 to kind of prove you know super duper 1131 00:45:59,490 --> 00:45:56,710 that's my word of the day it's because 1132 00:46:02,580 --> 00:45:59,500 the whiskey's kicking we don't really 1133 00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:02,590 have incredible evidence to sort of say 1134 00:46:06,090 --> 00:46:03,910 yeah this is definitely recovered from a 1135 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:06,100 UFO anyway she was working with how put 1136 00:46:11,570 --> 00:46:10,090 off in the early you know 2010's and 1137 00:46:14,010 --> 00:46:11,580 this metal was kind of being studied 1138 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:14,020 constantly by earth Tech sort of off and 1139 00:46:18,630 --> 00:46:16,930 on and and the Institute for Advanced 1140 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:18,640 science or something whatever he runs 1141 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:20,530 out of Texas so they're kind of off and 1142 00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:22,330 on how put off had these metals and heat 1143 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:24,430 shipped them back to Linda and back and 1144 00:46:28,950 --> 00:46:26,410 forth anyway it eventually came down 1145 00:46:30,810 --> 00:46:28,960 that that they basically ran out of 1146 00:46:32,670 --> 00:46:30,820 tests that they could run every single 1147 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:32,680 test came back inconclusive 1148 00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:34,810 they couldn't you know they didn't know 1149 00:46:38,180 --> 00:46:35,790 what this metal 1150 00:46:40,580 --> 00:46:38,190 it wasn't doing what it allegedly was 1151 00:46:44,420 --> 00:46:40,590 supposed to do which was floats on its 1152 00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:44,430 own so they sort of ran out of tests and 1153 00:46:52,070 --> 00:46:49,520 I think it was in 2018 the hal and linda 1154 00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:52,080 spoke to each other and i think steve 1155 00:46:58,340 --> 00:46:55,440 justice was involved or Jim sam event my 1156 00:47:00,860 --> 00:46:58,350 mind's blanking but they they figured 1157 00:47:03,020 --> 00:47:00,870 that there actually is a place that 1158 00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:03,030 still has one more test that we can run 1159 00:47:07,540 --> 00:47:05,520 on this metal the problem is the device 1160 00:47:11,090 --> 00:47:07,550 whether the machine required is so 1161 00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,100 expensive and so unique that really only 1162 00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:13,200 a few places in the United States have 1163 00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:15,540 it and the best place is the United 1164 00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:17,460 States Army this this piece of equipment 1165 00:47:23,150 --> 00:47:20,340 that that is owned by the Army that that 1166 00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,160 can basically pump I guess some sort of 1167 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:25,680 frequency through this metal at a 1168 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:27,570 certain level that should technically 1169 00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:30,090 make it float and Linda Moulton Howe is 1170 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:32,250 ultimately presented with the option to 1171 00:47:38,210 --> 00:47:35,490 kind of work with T TSA or or or sell 1172 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:38,220 them the metal but the problem was 1173 00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:41,970 because the lab that would be required 1174 00:47:46,190 --> 00:47:44,640 it was a it's a like a secret lab like a 1175 00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:46,200 top secret lab so you require security 1176 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:47,520 clearances oh I'm trying to say it's not 1177 00:47:51,590 --> 00:47:49,410 top secret but in order to get in you 1178 00:47:53,450 --> 00:47:51,600 would require a security clearance and 1179 00:47:55,250 --> 00:47:53,460 Linda Moulton Howe doesn't have one so 1180 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:55,260 she wouldn't are you kidding me at this 1181 00:47:59,630 --> 00:47:57,330 point in her career yeah I know she 1182 00:48:02,150 --> 00:47:59,640 wouldn't be able to get in to to kind of 1183 00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:02,160 be there when this stuff happens and and 1184 00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,520 and whatever so she you know from 1185 00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:07,920 whatever she ultimately decided to sell 1186 00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:11,700 the metal to t TSA for the paltry sum of 1187 00:48:16,610 --> 00:48:14,310 thirty five thousand dollars now in you 1188 00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:16,620 know in hindsight when I sort of asked 1189 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:19,140 like why thirty five thousand dollars 1190 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:21,210 for this metal she said well you know 1191 00:48:25,550 --> 00:48:23,130 I've had it for now you know several 1192 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:25,560 decades I've probably put about thirty 1193 00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:27,570 five grand into it from shipping it 1194 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:29,400 around the country and travel and 1195 00:48:32,660 --> 00:48:31,050 whatever so she says I just want my 1196 00:48:34,850 --> 00:48:32,670 money back so that's a fair answer I 1197 00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:34,860 respected yeah yeah it's not you know 1198 00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:37,440 it's not a crazy thing and in fact she 1199 00:48:39,950 --> 00:48:38,700 commented she said they were actually 1200 00:48:41,090 --> 00:48:39,960 surprised like they thought she would 1201 00:48:42,710 --> 00:48:41,100 have asked like a hundred grand or 1202 00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:42,720 something and as like why didn't you and 1203 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:43,920 she's like good she just burst out 1204 00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:45,330 laughing and I'm probably like because 1205 00:48:47,970 --> 00:48:46,890 like yet I should have asked for 100 1206 00:48:50,730 --> 00:48:47,980 grand 1207 00:48:53,250 --> 00:48:50,740 but you know the ultimate kind of point 1208 00:48:55,260 --> 00:48:53,260 here is she sold them this metal and now 1209 00:48:57,630 --> 00:48:55,270 this metal is basically gonna be tested 1210 00:48:59,790 --> 00:48:57,640 by the their their create a deal with 1211 00:49:02,030 --> 00:48:59,800 the United States military to develop I 1212 00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:02,040 guess sort of novel technology and 1213 00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:04,150 ultimately I think the intention is to 1214 00:49:09,390 --> 00:49:06,670 see if this thing floats which is what 1215 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:09,400 the claim has always been in regards to 1216 00:49:13,170 --> 00:49:11,050 this piece of metal right so this could 1217 00:49:15,210 --> 00:49:13,180 ultimately be the technology that Tom 1218 00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:15,220 DeLonge wants to make a spaceship with I 1219 00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:18,730 guess mm-hmm or maybe the army could use 1220 00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,340 to weaponize something I always I'm 1221 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:23,200 always interested in we brought this up 1222 00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:25,450 on a past episode with you know the 1223 00:49:30,510 --> 00:49:27,250 people over at the unknown podcast of 1224 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:30,520 these materials always seem to make 1225 00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:32,650 their way back to the military somehow 1226 00:49:36,450 --> 00:49:34,510 no matter who is in possession of them 1227 00:49:38,460 --> 00:49:36,460 at one point it always comes full circle 1228 00:49:42,210 --> 00:49:38,470 and they seem to make it to the military 1229 00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:42,220 so I do find this interesting I find it 1230 00:49:47,130 --> 00:49:44,470 interesting - you spoke to Chris 1231 00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:47,140 Cogswell in your article about you know 1232 00:49:51,330 --> 00:49:48,700 he's he's done a lot of chemical 1233 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:51,340 engineering himself and he doesn't 1234 00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:52,770 really think there's much to these 1235 00:49:58,530 --> 00:49:56,230 alloys which if someone like Chris is 1236 00:50:00,420 --> 00:49:58,540 making these claims yet you know to the 1237 00:50:03,660 --> 00:50:00,430 Stars is saying this is one of the most 1238 00:50:05,700 --> 00:50:03,670 you know scientifically profound earth 1239 00:50:08,070 --> 00:50:05,710 changing technologies we've come across 1240 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:08,080 I do have to wonder like where is that 1241 00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:10,210 line in between is it really what - the 1242 00:50:14,430 --> 00:50:13,119 Stars is making it out to be or sure are 1243 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:14,440 we dealing with here 1244 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:16,810 you know III I'm not sure if if - the 1245 00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:20,410 Stars sort of totally knows either I 1246 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:24,609 think on their end they are able to 1247 00:50:30,330 --> 00:50:26,530 secure a deal with the United States 1248 00:50:32,730 --> 00:50:30,340 Army which which means resources right 1249 00:50:35,220 --> 00:50:32,740 it's not cash but it means access to 1250 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:35,230 equipment which which is worth a lot and 1251 00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:37,810 it's also like top-shelf equipment so so 1252 00:50:43,140 --> 00:50:40,510 there's I'm sure an end game here right 1253 00:50:45,540 --> 00:50:43,150 to develop stuff at least in some way I 1254 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:45,550 don't know for sure but I think from the 1255 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:47,770 United States Army's end I mean you need 1256 00:50:53,099 --> 00:50:50,290 to think to the Stars has has a 1257 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:53,109 relatively large presence I mean 1258 00:50:55,890 --> 00:50:55,570 comparative to other uniform is a 1259 00:50:58,109 --> 00:50:55,900 shion's 1260 00:51:00,300 --> 00:50:58,119 UFO organizations have always sort of 1261 00:51:01,829 --> 00:51:00,310 been of interest to the national 1262 00:51:04,979 --> 00:51:01,839 security sort of 1263 00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:04,989 paratus right for a lot of reasons they 1264 00:51:10,589 --> 00:51:07,839 attract certain types of people a lot of 1265 00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:10,599 ex vets exbest a lot of ex-military 1266 00:51:17,130 --> 00:51:13,900 current vets you know find themselves 1267 00:51:19,789 --> 00:51:17,140 sometimes in sort of UFO groups or UFO 1268 00:51:22,289 --> 00:51:19,799 communities because maybe when they were 1269 00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:22,299 working you know in the military they 1270 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:24,249 saw something or or experienced 1271 00:51:29,249 --> 00:51:27,249 something I think for the military to 1272 00:51:32,479 --> 00:51:29,259 the stars is valuable because ultimately 1273 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:32,489 it's gonna have this kind of dragnet 1274 00:51:36,959 --> 00:51:34,450 effect right where it's gonna kind of 1275 00:51:40,170 --> 00:51:36,969 say listen we want all of your weird 1276 00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:40,180 stuff UFO stuff send it to us 1277 00:51:45,989 --> 00:51:42,640 um and out of that potentially you know 1278 00:51:48,390 --> 00:51:45,999 somebody has um some piece of some you 1279 00:51:49,979 --> 00:51:48,400 know Chinese helicopter that no one's 1280 00:51:51,359 --> 00:51:49,989 ever seen before that's made of some 1281 00:51:52,650 --> 00:51:51,369 weird material that's stealth or 1282 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:52,660 something and you know they can 1283 00:51:57,359 --> 00:51:54,249 reverse-engineer at an R and rate like 1284 00:52:00,809 --> 00:51:57,369 you have potential for weird novel 1285 00:52:02,789 --> 00:52:00,819 material that that no one's seen before 1286 00:52:05,279 --> 00:52:02,799 because it fell off of something not 1287 00:52:07,620 --> 00:52:05,289 necessarily UFO but you know a foreign 1288 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:07,630 drone or something like that and you 1289 00:52:12,209 --> 00:52:09,729 basically just have this large data 1290 00:52:14,789 --> 00:52:12,219 collection sort of platform that is TT 1291 00:52:16,979 --> 00:52:14,799 si that can kind of yank not only 1292 00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:16,989 information from people but also you 1293 00:52:22,170 --> 00:52:19,359 know materials that may have has fallen 1294 00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:22,180 off things you know not necessarily 1295 00:52:27,390 --> 00:52:25,089 alien things but but very human advanced 1296 00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:27,400 things that maybe our military wants to 1297 00:52:31,229 --> 00:52:29,200 get their hands on I'm excited to see 1298 00:52:33,989 --> 00:52:31,239 where this is all heading I know this 1299 00:52:36,180 --> 00:52:33,999 season on unidentified the History 1300 00:52:37,979 --> 00:52:36,190 Channel show they're gonna be going deep 1301 00:52:40,019 --> 00:52:37,989 into the metamaterials in the atom 1302 00:52:42,829 --> 00:52:40,029 research project so that'll be 1303 00:52:45,539 --> 00:52:42,839 interesting to see but again it's just 1304 00:52:47,700 --> 00:52:45,549 sorry the trains going by out my window 1305 00:52:49,890 --> 00:52:47,710 I'm sure you can hear it that's New York 1306 00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:49,900 for you baby this is the problem 1307 00:52:54,180 --> 00:52:52,089 recording in New York anyways yeah I 1308 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:54,190 think you know things like what to the 1309 00:52:58,049 --> 00:52:56,650 Stars is doing and getting all this 1310 00:53:00,930 --> 00:52:58,059 information out to the mainstream is 1311 00:53:02,459 --> 00:53:00,940 just moving the needle forward and you 1312 00:53:03,870 --> 00:53:02,469 know there's a few more articles that 1313 00:53:06,059 --> 00:53:03,880 you wrote that I think are also 1314 00:53:08,219 --> 00:53:06,069 contributing to moving that needle 1315 00:53:10,979 --> 00:53:08,229 forward and that was one from Popular 1316 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:10,989 Mechanics and one for vise sort of both 1317 00:53:16,780 --> 00:53:14,930 having to do with Project Blue Book 1318 00:53:19,210 --> 00:53:16,790 and you know the project Bluebook 1319 00:53:21,069 --> 00:53:19,220 television series the one in Popular 1320 00:53:22,990 --> 00:53:21,079 Mechanics he really traced the entire 1321 00:53:25,809 --> 00:53:23,000 history of the government's and the 1322 00:53:28,660 --> 00:53:25,819 airforce involvement in studying UFOs 1323 00:53:30,490 --> 00:53:28,670 and I love the title of this 50 years 1324 00:53:33,549 --> 00:53:30,500 ago the Air Force tried to make UFOs go 1325 00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:33,559 away it didn't work so yeah you were 1326 00:53:40,569 --> 00:53:37,280 able to get two players in the whole 1327 00:53:42,910 --> 00:53:40,579 Hynek story in one article which I'd 1328 00:53:44,170 --> 00:53:42,920 never seen done before and that's Mark 1329 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:44,180 O'Connell the guy who wrote the 1330 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:46,730 biography on Hynek and also David 1331 00:53:51,010 --> 00:53:49,490 O'Leary who was our guest last week who 1332 00:53:53,770 --> 00:53:51,020 is doing the Project Blue Book 1333 00:53:55,180 --> 00:53:53,780 television series and we know that they 1334 00:53:57,190 --> 00:53:55,190 don't really see eye to eye when it 1335 00:53:59,230 --> 00:53:57,200 comes to how high Nick is portrayed so 1336 00:54:01,210 --> 00:53:59,240 how are you able to get these two in the 1337 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:01,220 same article do they even know they were 1338 00:54:06,130 --> 00:54:03,530 gonna be in it together and what what 1339 00:54:07,900 --> 00:54:06,140 prompted you to write this one certainly 1340 00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:07,910 not I would never tell them that they 1341 00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:10,250 were in the same article ya know yeah 1342 00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:12,079 there has been some some I guess drama 1343 00:54:16,270 --> 00:54:14,210 between them no not really like it's not 1344 00:54:17,650 --> 00:54:16,280 like drama drama it's just you know 1345 00:54:19,660 --> 00:54:17,660 there's there's been some disagreements 1346 00:54:21,039 --> 00:54:19,670 as to how the Hynek character and and 1347 00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:21,049 how that whole narrative has been sort 1348 00:54:25,690 --> 00:54:23,599 of portrayed but Blue Book is has always 1349 00:54:27,130 --> 00:54:25,700 kind of been an interesting you know 1350 00:54:29,470 --> 00:54:27,140 it's always been interesting for people 1351 00:54:31,569 --> 00:54:29,480 within the UFO community to know and as 1352 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:31,579 you kind of dig deeper into UFOs 1353 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:33,650 you realize that a lot of the the stuff 1354 00:54:38,410 --> 00:54:36,170 we're dealing with now was dealt with by 1355 00:54:40,569 --> 00:54:38,420 hi Nick and and Andrew Pelt and all 1356 00:54:43,809 --> 00:54:40,579 those other guys in the 1950s and 60s so 1357 00:54:47,559 --> 00:54:43,819 so I think what blue book opened up for 1358 00:54:50,349 --> 00:54:47,569 me was how sort of historically cyclical 1359 00:54:51,940 --> 00:54:50,359 UFOs are things kind of come into vogue 1360 00:54:54,609 --> 00:54:51,950 and then they disappear and they come 1361 00:54:56,620 --> 00:54:54,619 back you know I think for me the most 1362 00:55:00,190 --> 00:54:56,630 compelling piece of that entire article 1363 00:55:03,819 --> 00:55:00,200 was sort of learning and realizing that 1364 00:55:06,900 --> 00:55:03,829 the purpose of blue book fundamentally 1365 00:55:10,390 --> 00:55:06,910 was to not you know study UFOs but to 1366 00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:10,400 get rid of sort of the cultural 1367 00:55:16,359 --> 00:55:13,520 implications they would have for our 1368 00:55:18,609 --> 00:55:16,369 popular culture and and and for the way 1369 00:55:22,539 --> 00:55:18,619 people thought you know you had this 1370 00:55:24,069 --> 00:55:22,549 entire climate of Cold War era UFO alien 1371 00:55:26,980 --> 00:55:24,079 movies you know invasion of the Body 1372 00:55:28,270 --> 00:55:26,990 Snatchers and and and they worked as 1373 00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:28,280 this as this 1374 00:55:34,090 --> 00:55:30,770 of anti-communist propaganda but then 1375 00:55:36,490 --> 00:55:34,100 what starts to occur is is is they start 1376 00:55:40,030 --> 00:55:36,500 to blend and mix with people's sort of 1377 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:40,040 legitimate UFO encounters and people 1378 00:55:44,170 --> 00:55:42,650 very quickly kind of leave behind the 1379 00:55:46,690 --> 00:55:44,180 Cold War mentality and they start 1380 00:55:48,970 --> 00:55:46,700 thinking in the exact opposite way you 1381 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:48,980 want them to think and what you see in 1382 00:55:56,190 --> 00:55:52,970 the 1950s is a huge rise of sort of very 1383 00:55:59,460 --> 00:55:56,200 very new-age spiritual very left-leaning 1384 00:56:02,440 --> 00:55:59,470 you know verging on communist socialist 1385 00:56:04,090 --> 00:56:02,450 you know UFO cults and groups that are 1386 00:56:06,790 --> 00:56:04,100 kind of preaching we have to love 1387 00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:06,800 everybody and and and nuclear war is bad 1388 00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:09,230 and we should disarm our weapons and 1389 00:56:12,670 --> 00:56:10,640 care about the environment and love 1390 00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:12,680 mother nature I mean from from the 1391 00:56:16,330 --> 00:56:14,720 military's perspective this is like what 1392 00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:16,340 you don't want right you don't want 1393 00:56:22,330 --> 00:56:19,760 massive Lovins occurring with no 1394 00:56:23,980 --> 00:56:22,340 business yeah exactly with the Russians 1395 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:23,990 and you know you don't want any of this 1396 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:26,770 right you you want to maintain a sort of 1397 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:29,930 decorum of you know you're on this side 1398 00:56:35,530 --> 00:56:32,770 therefore you should act like it and 1399 00:56:37,090 --> 00:56:35,540 Bluebook was was I think designed to 1400 00:56:39,610 --> 00:56:37,100 start kind of dealing with some of the 1401 00:56:41,470 --> 00:56:39,620 more larger cultural implications I'm 1402 00:56:43,810 --> 00:56:41,480 not sure if you know I mean obviously 1403 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:43,820 UFO events did occur and people saw 1404 00:56:46,750 --> 00:56:44,690 strange things 1405 00:56:49,510 --> 00:56:46,760 so I don't want to discount that but 1406 00:56:51,610 --> 00:56:49,520 Bluebook never really came to to any 1407 00:56:53,830 --> 00:56:51,620 sort of conclusions apart from the fact 1408 00:56:55,630 --> 00:56:53,840 that yeah people see things and we don't 1409 00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:55,640 know necessarily what they're seeing and 1410 00:56:59,350 --> 00:56:57,200 that's all we can kind of assert at this 1411 00:57:01,000 --> 00:56:59,360 point right weird you know weird [\h__\h] 1412 00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:01,010 happens that was the sort of the final 1413 00:57:04,690 --> 00:57:03,110 conclusion of all of the Blue Book 1414 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:04,700 reports the condom can be all that stuff 1415 00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:08,090 weird stuff happens however it has no 1416 00:57:11,410 --> 00:57:09,680 relevance to science and it has no 1417 00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:11,420 relevance to the national security of 1418 00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,600 the country according to these sort of 1419 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:16,640 reports right the only problem they 1420 00:57:23,890 --> 00:57:19,610 faced and really the the big takeaway 1421 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:23,900 from Blue Book was that the military and 1422 00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:25,370 the government and predominately 1423 00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:26,720 intelligence agencies should sort of 1424 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:28,910 monitor UFO groups for subversive 1425 00:57:33,670 --> 00:57:31,490 activity and I think quickly the the 1426 00:57:36,580 --> 00:57:33,680 military and the intelligence community 1427 00:57:39,070 --> 00:57:36,590 learned that UFO groups are really a big 1428 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:39,080 problem and I touched on this a lot in 1429 00:57:43,850 --> 00:57:42,090 my book right the UFO community thinks 1430 00:57:46,780 --> 00:57:43,860 about the world kind of differently than 1431 00:57:50,660 --> 00:57:46,790 then maybe the more mainstream 1432 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:50,670 subcultures we we sort of view the 1433 00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:52,890 potential that that we're not at the top 1434 00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:56,010 of the food chain and there's better 1435 00:58:00,730 --> 00:57:58,080 ways to live our lives and and and maybe 1436 00:58:03,290 --> 00:58:00,740 you know organizing ourselves by state 1437 00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:03,300 is not you know how we ought to do 1438 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:04,650 things and and you know we have these 1439 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:06,930 weird subversive ideas often in the UFO 1440 00:58:12,890 --> 00:58:09,450 community about how government ought to 1441 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:12,900 be or sovereignty or whatever so so blue 1442 00:58:16,370 --> 00:58:14,730 book I think tried to address that right 1443 00:58:17,810 --> 00:58:16,380 like we need to monitor these people 1444 00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:17,820 because they're they're thinking 1445 00:58:21,140 --> 00:58:19,110 dangerous thoughts that we don't want 1446 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:21,150 them to think in in 1950s and 60s 1447 00:58:25,250 --> 00:58:23,370 America so it was a lot of fun to kind 1448 00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:25,260 of dig into those ideas and into that 1449 00:58:29,540 --> 00:58:27,510 research to talk more about the cultural 1450 00:58:30,950 --> 00:58:29,550 aspects of Blue Book which is something 1451 00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:30,960 the UFO community doesn't do very much 1452 00:58:34,070 --> 00:58:32,370 right we look at the cases we look at 1453 00:58:36,260 --> 00:58:34,080 the UFO events what do people see right 1454 00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:36,270 we don't often think about the more the 1455 00:58:42,020 --> 00:58:39,330 more cultural aspects of maybe the 1456 00:58:43,970 --> 00:58:42,030 politics that motivated for example Blue 1457 00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:43,980 Book to occur or Blue Book to be 1458 00:58:47,570 --> 00:58:45,570 shuttered so it was it was kind of 1459 00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:47,580 interim of those waters with with 1460 00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:50,130 especially a lot of UFO people who are 1461 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:52,230 very much not interested in the culture 1462 00:58:56,540 --> 00:58:54,810 right like the cultural aspects of 1463 00:58:57,530 --> 00:58:56,550 ufology or dumb just tell me about like 1464 00:59:00,140 --> 00:58:57,540 tell me what it looked like right like 1465 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:00,150 that's all we want to know yeah so yeah 1466 00:59:04,070 --> 00:59:02,010 it was it was a fun story to write that 1467 00:59:07,010 --> 00:59:04,080 sort of bled into another article you 1468 00:59:09,050 --> 00:59:07,020 wrote later on this came out around when 1469 00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,060 season two of Project Blue Book was 1470 00:59:14,330 --> 00:59:11,280 premiering and this is one over advice 1471 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:14,340 that is titled Hollywood's UFO stories 1472 00:59:18,170 --> 00:59:16,410 are becoming way more realistic and your 1473 00:59:20,870 --> 00:59:18,180 subtitle here is what really got my 1474 00:59:22,850 --> 00:59:20,880 attention the Pentagon admits UFOs are 1475 00:59:25,970 --> 00:59:22,860 real so Hollywood is making a flurry of 1476 00:59:28,910 --> 00:59:25,980 movies and TV shows about how we should 1477 00:59:31,550 --> 00:59:28,920 look for them so what is this one about 1478 00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:31,560 MJ and what prompted you to write this 1479 00:59:37,390 --> 00:59:35,010 one yeah yeah because having having now 1480 00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:37,400 been part of that Hollywood machine 1481 00:59:43,580 --> 00:59:41,040 pumping out UFO and you know paranormal 1482 00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:43,590 content you and I have seen both sides 1483 00:59:49,940 --> 00:59:47,280 of it now so right what is that what is 1484 00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:49,950 this one all about yeah so so I'm gonna 1485 00:59:55,820 --> 00:59:52,260 full disclosure on this one I was 1486 00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:55,830 contacted by the PR people at history 1487 00:59:59,780 --> 00:59:57,450 that season two blue books coming out 1488 01:00:01,610 --> 00:59:59,790 and do you want to interview Aidan 1489 01:00:06,140 --> 01:00:01,620 Gillen yes 1490 01:00:09,980 --> 01:00:06,150 and I was like Littlefinger yeah and so 1491 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:09,990 I had no I had no you know this article 1492 01:00:14,810 --> 01:00:11,490 was not something I was gonna write um 1493 01:00:16,130 --> 01:00:14,820 and so I pitched it to vice and vice I 1494 01:00:17,300 --> 01:00:16,140 said like listen they want me to 1495 01:00:18,650 --> 01:00:17,310 interview you know Littlefinger from 1496 01:00:20,510 --> 01:00:18,660 Game of Thrones I could do an article 1497 01:00:22,310 --> 01:00:20,520 about in Gillen and we can talk about 1498 01:00:28,130 --> 01:00:22,320 blue book and blah blah blah and like 1499 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:28,140 not interested it's not really show we 1500 01:00:30,260 --> 01:00:28,530 cover 1501 01:00:32,270 --> 01:00:30,270 you know nobody really cares what 1502 01:00:33,590 --> 01:00:32,280 Project Blue Book is a TV show like at 1503 01:00:35,930 --> 01:00:33,600 least not in the mainstream like it's 1504 01:00:38,330 --> 01:00:35,940 it's it's it's a relatively niche right 1505 01:00:40,610 --> 01:00:38,340 it was the number one new drama on 1506 01:00:43,130 --> 01:00:40,620 television last season what do you think 1507 01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:43,140 advice right I know and there's just not 1508 01:00:45,710 --> 01:00:44,610 in their world right and you know 1509 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:45,720 they're a bunch of New Yorkers so 1510 01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:49,530 whatever stupid New Yorkers so so I I 1511 01:00:53,900 --> 01:00:51,930 was like okay how do I turn this into 1512 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:53,910 something you know that I still get to 1513 01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:55,050 interview Aidan Gillen 1514 01:00:59,240 --> 01:00:56,970 and I still get to do sort of my job 1515 01:01:02,540 --> 01:00:59,250 with Vice which is sort of to talk about 1516 01:01:05,450 --> 01:01:02,550 UFO culture so I came up with this 1517 01:01:07,220 --> 01:01:05,460 half-baked idea and you know turns out 1518 01:01:09,650 --> 01:01:07,230 it worked out but I got to interview 1519 01:01:11,210 --> 01:01:09,660 Aidan Gillen which was pretty cool for 1520 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:11,220 like 20 minutes we just talked on the 1521 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:13,530 phone and and he's a super chill guy and 1522 01:01:18,140 --> 01:01:15,810 he swears like a sailor and and and we 1523 01:01:21,290 --> 01:01:18,150 just talked about UFOs and and politics 1524 01:01:23,330 --> 01:01:21,300 and and what it's like to you know be on 1525 01:01:25,130 --> 01:01:23,340 TV or whatever and and the fact that you 1526 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:25,140 know he grew up watching you know like 1527 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:26,730 Close Encounters of the Third Kind you 1528 01:01:30,530 --> 01:01:28,050 thought was a sweet movie and like you 1529 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:30,540 know he knows a lot about it he's not 1530 01:01:34,070 --> 01:01:32,130 really a UFO person though so he doesn't 1531 01:01:36,380 --> 01:01:34,080 really pay very much attention to to our 1532 01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:36,390 community apart from just like press 1533 01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:40,020 stuff probably by the best yeah yeah I 1534 01:01:46,610 --> 01:01:42,960 said yeah it's a good idea but I think 1535 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:46,620 what happened is after I spoke to him I 1536 01:01:50,510 --> 01:01:48,210 immediately had the urge like I got a 1537 01:01:52,550 --> 01:01:50,520 call Robby Graham who wrote silver 1538 01:01:56,570 --> 01:01:52,560 screen saucers and he's sort of the UFO 1539 01:02:00,050 --> 01:01:56,580 community's kind of movie TV expert when 1540 01:02:02,450 --> 01:02:00,060 it comes to how the UFO culture merges 1541 01:02:04,910 --> 01:02:02,460 with Hollywood this guy knows everything 1542 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:04,920 about that subject so so it was really 1543 01:02:09,380 --> 01:02:06,930 great to talk to him after and and and 1544 01:02:12,859 --> 01:02:09,390 kind of piece this article together 1545 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:12,869 because I think what you see is is a 1546 01:02:17,809 --> 01:02:15,210 shift in the way 1547 01:02:22,190 --> 01:02:17,819 aliens are being portrayed I think in 1548 01:02:23,509 --> 01:02:22,200 film not so much in like the Avengers or 1549 01:02:26,420 --> 01:02:23,519 anything like that like I don't mean 1550 01:02:30,049 --> 01:02:26,430 like Disney but I think more in in the 1551 01:02:31,729 --> 01:02:30,059 reality TV space more in in in shows 1552 01:02:35,180 --> 01:02:31,739 like Project Blue Book right it's 1553 01:02:38,210 --> 01:02:35,190 starting to bridge the gap much more 1554 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:38,220 coherently between UFO events that 1555 01:02:44,599 --> 01:02:40,170 people experience in sort of in real 1556 01:02:47,479 --> 01:02:44,609 life and how Hollywood gets involved in 1557 01:02:48,829 --> 01:02:47,489 this right you you you you saw this for 1558 01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:48,839 sure with with Close Encounters of the 1559 01:02:52,700 --> 01:02:51,089 Third Kind but there's been a lot of gap 1560 01:02:54,109 --> 01:02:52,710 years right and we're starting to kind 1561 01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:54,119 of merge these IDs so I think the 1562 01:02:59,900 --> 01:02:55,980 arrival and contact are great examples 1563 01:03:02,979 --> 01:02:59,910 of this progression right into taking 1564 01:03:05,329 --> 01:03:02,989 UFOs and aliens and the idea of contact 1565 01:03:07,700 --> 01:03:05,339 not the film but like the concept of 1566 01:03:10,670 --> 01:03:07,710 contact with something else as being a 1567 01:03:12,799 --> 01:03:10,680 legitimate issue humanity may have to 1568 01:03:14,359 --> 01:03:12,809 deal with in the near future so I'm not 1569 01:03:16,849 --> 01:03:14,369 saying that you know Project Blue Book 1570 01:03:20,589 --> 01:03:16,859 the TV program is realistic by any means 1571 01:03:24,559 --> 01:03:20,599 but the way Hollywood is pivoting to 1572 01:03:27,229 --> 01:03:24,569 UFOs its pivoting in a much more serious 1573 01:03:30,289 --> 01:03:27,239 way I think our subculture is only 1574 01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:30,299 getting bigger we're not as niche as we 1575 01:03:35,660 --> 01:03:32,640 used to be so so I think that there's a 1576 01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:35,670 market there that that maybe people 1577 01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:39,119 didn't take seriously before I think you 1578 01:03:43,009 --> 01:03:40,799 know previously the thoughts of the UFO 1579 01:03:44,210 --> 01:03:43,019 community didn't really matter where as 1580 01:03:46,759 --> 01:03:44,220 an I'm not sure if they matter 1581 01:03:49,970 --> 01:03:46,769 completely yet but I think you need to 1582 01:03:51,710 --> 01:03:49,980 start getting people on board within the 1583 01:03:53,749 --> 01:03:51,720 community because they're like our 1584 01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:53,759 community's really the the gatekeepers 1585 01:03:58,190 --> 01:03:56,400 of sort of the history and the culture 1586 01:03:59,900 --> 01:03:58,200 of the phenomenon right the narrative of 1587 01:04:01,729 --> 01:03:59,910 the phenomenon we we're kind of the the 1588 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:01,739 the keepers of the stories in a sense 1589 01:04:05,630 --> 01:04:03,690 and if anything you don't have us on 1590 01:04:06,460 --> 01:04:05,640 board you know we kind of find a way to 1591 01:04:09,620 --> 01:04:06,470 tear you down 1592 01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:09,630 we're very we're self-policing right so 1593 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:11,640 so I think there is a sort of shift 1594 01:04:16,099 --> 01:04:13,650 happening and I think Project Blue Book 1595 01:04:18,650 --> 01:04:16,109 is just a sort of step right it's just 1596 01:04:21,509 --> 01:04:18,660 another stone in the path that we're 1597 01:04:25,139 --> 01:04:21,519 sort of moving closer to a 1598 01:04:28,380 --> 01:04:25,149 better merging of what the phenomenon is 1599 01:04:31,019 --> 01:04:28,390 alike and what people experience and how 1600 01:04:34,859 --> 01:04:31,029 Hollywood and the media portrays that I 1601 01:04:37,620 --> 01:04:34,869 see I see this this wave I guess I'll 1602 01:04:40,169 --> 01:04:37,630 put it much differently from let's say 1603 01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:40,179 you know the early 90s or so when you 1604 01:04:46,019 --> 01:04:43,119 had shows or sightings or a lot of these 1605 01:04:48,509 --> 01:04:46,029 earlier shows covering these topics back 1606 01:04:53,069 --> 01:04:48,519 when abductions were like the hot thing 1607 01:04:56,909 --> 01:04:53,079 of the time very sensationalized and you 1608 01:04:58,469 --> 01:04:56,919 know little goofy and you know sort of 1609 01:05:00,929 --> 01:04:58,479 going down the horror realm when it 1610 01:05:03,389 --> 01:05:00,939 comes to these things whereas now you 1611 01:05:05,459 --> 01:05:03,399 have in you know as well as I do 1612 01:05:07,439 --> 01:05:05,469 networks and production company is 1613 01:05:09,719 --> 01:05:07,449 reaching out to the UFO community of 1614 01:05:12,029 --> 01:05:09,729 like never before being like look we 1615 01:05:14,370 --> 01:05:12,039 want to make a new show but we want the 1616 01:05:17,309 --> 01:05:14,380 actual cases and we want to take it 1617 01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:17,319 seriously and you can't ask for more 1618 01:05:21,929 --> 01:05:19,089 than that from Hollywood you know 1619 01:05:25,019 --> 01:05:21,939 whether their motives are are altruistic 1620 01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:25,029 or not they usually are not but it's um 1621 01:05:29,129 --> 01:05:26,799 of you know just getting the information 1622 01:05:31,399 --> 01:05:29,139 out there but you do see a shift 1623 01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:31,409 happening in the mainstream as well of 1624 01:05:35,279 --> 01:05:33,729 taking these things much more seriously 1625 01:05:37,319 --> 01:05:35,289 you look at all the Navy stories and 1626 01:05:40,079 --> 01:05:37,329 everything so I think you're right I 1627 01:05:42,449 --> 01:05:40,089 think we UFOs as you say in the article 1628 01:05:44,370 --> 01:05:42,459 are the hot ticket right now and that's 1629 01:05:47,429 --> 01:05:44,380 not a bad thing and I think if the UFO 1630 01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:47,439 community embraced that now more than 1631 01:05:53,129 --> 01:05:50,799 rejecting it they'd realize hi this is 1632 01:05:55,499 --> 01:05:53,139 our chance like this is our chance for 1633 01:05:58,859 --> 01:05:55,509 our subculture to become culture again 1634 01:06:01,529 --> 01:05:58,869 sure it's a and you you know really show 1635 01:06:04,139 --> 01:06:01,539 people why we spend our time doing this 1636 01:06:07,919 --> 01:06:04,149 and yeah I look forward to seeing where 1637 01:06:09,509 --> 01:06:07,929 it goes and what comes out of it yeah 1638 01:06:12,899 --> 01:06:09,519 you know it's it's it's interesting 1639 01:06:15,989 --> 01:06:12,909 because what still occurs though is is I 1640 01:06:18,989 --> 01:06:15,999 think Hollywood and and they haven't 1641 01:06:22,109 --> 01:06:18,999 fully adapted to to our worldview yet I 1642 01:06:24,269 --> 01:06:22,119 think they still Purdue they still want 1643 01:06:26,849 --> 01:06:24,279 to produce shows though that that they 1644 01:06:28,469 --> 01:06:26,859 know how to produce yeah right and 1645 01:06:31,799 --> 01:06:28,479 that's kind of the biggest hurdle is 1646 01:06:35,390 --> 01:06:31,809 getting executives who work at you know 1647 01:06:37,610 --> 01:06:35,400 larger networks or larger cable 1648 01:06:39,620 --> 01:06:37,620 cable companies or cable companies like 1649 01:06:42,110 --> 01:06:39,630 cable stations whatever you want to call 1650 01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:42,120 them TV channels cable channels you know 1651 01:06:48,710 --> 01:06:45,650 like they're these executives book shows 1652 01:06:50,810 --> 01:06:48,720 you know about house flipping and in the 1653 01:06:53,930 --> 01:06:50,820 same breath book shows about UFOs so 1654 01:06:56,660 --> 01:06:53,940 they don't know really anything about 1655 01:06:58,760 --> 01:06:56,670 our community not really right there 1656 01:07:02,090 --> 01:06:58,770 they're just looking for the next big TV 1657 01:07:04,430 --> 01:07:02,100 show so so I think the inherent problem 1658 01:07:06,350 --> 01:07:04,440 is is they're still trying to kind of 1659 01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:06,360 get their beats you know I mean like the 1660 01:07:10,250 --> 01:07:08,490 way the way it used to be right we got 1661 01:07:11,810 --> 01:07:10,260 to do these sort of five act or four act 1662 01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:11,820 shows there's got to be the conclusion 1663 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:13,920 we've got to have the big reveal like it 1664 01:07:17,450 --> 01:07:15,930 follows that pattern which is 1665 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:17,460 unfortunate because I don't think 1666 01:07:22,130 --> 01:07:19,650 they've fully adapted or or realized 1667 01:07:24,860 --> 01:07:22,140 that that's not really how it works this 1668 01:07:26,450 --> 01:07:24,870 is why I think like a show like Hellyer 1669 01:07:29,180 --> 01:07:26,460 which was done by Newt the Newkirk's 1670 01:07:32,690 --> 01:07:29,190 right on YouTube and on Amazon Prime 1671 01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:32,700 whatever their own kind of personal idea 1672 01:07:38,780 --> 01:07:34,970 I think is really successful III think 1673 01:07:41,180 --> 01:07:38,790 they're kind of starting to show what 1674 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:41,190 you know paranormal content could be 1675 01:07:44,570 --> 01:07:43,290 I'm not saying Hellyer's perfect but 1676 01:07:46,070 --> 01:07:44,580 it's definitely bizarre and it's 1677 01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:46,080 definitely beautiful and I think that 1678 01:07:51,170 --> 01:07:48,570 that's kind of what UFO and paranormal 1679 01:07:53,330 --> 01:07:51,180 programming kind of needs to start being 1680 01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:53,340 like it's not about getting your beats 1681 01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:55,530 all the time it's not about getting your 1682 01:08:01,040 --> 01:07:58,410 your conclusion perfectly wrapped every 1683 01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:01,050 time because there's no UFO case that's 1684 01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:02,610 been perfectly wrapped unless it's been 1685 01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:06,210 proven a hoax right right you know like 1686 01:08:11,870 --> 01:08:10,290 the Mothman case ended in like 1968 but 1687 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:11,880 it's still a thing right like people are 1688 01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:13,890 still seeing Mothman in West Virginia 1689 01:08:19,190 --> 01:08:15,330 every once in a while so clearly it's 1690 01:08:20,450 --> 01:08:19,200 not concluded so you know or in Chicago 1691 01:08:22,010 --> 01:08:20,460 or ever right people saying Mothman all 1692 01:08:24,670 --> 01:08:22,020 over the place so you know you have this 1693 01:08:27,530 --> 01:08:24,680 weird continuance that that 1694 01:08:30,290 --> 01:08:27,540 unfortunately the the Hollywood and and 1695 01:08:33,890 --> 01:08:30,300 and Los Angeles still haven't kind of 1696 01:08:37,809 --> 01:08:33,900 adapted to so so it's I agree it's 1697 01:08:40,190 --> 01:08:37,819 changing but I'm I'm not sure how it's 1698 01:08:43,670 --> 01:08:40,200 I'm still kind of seeing the the 1699 01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:43,680 inherent problem in in in this type of 1700 01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:45,330 program and you know yeah it is a 1701 01:08:51,250 --> 01:08:49,050 constant struggle and you know you can 1702 01:08:54,380 --> 01:08:51,260 beat your head on the desk all you want 1703 01:08:56,450 --> 01:08:54,390 with these execs and everyone in 1704 01:08:59,450 --> 01:08:56,460 Hollywood and try to like convince them 1705 01:09:02,270 --> 01:08:59,460 that the actual story is good enough 1706 01:09:05,630 --> 01:09:02,280 trust me it's entertaining enough that 1707 01:09:08,990 --> 01:09:05,640 you know try to create a false narrative 1708 01:09:11,480 --> 01:09:09,000 or drama around it but um I think both 1709 01:09:14,030 --> 01:09:11,490 of us have had some learning experience 1710 01:09:16,100 --> 01:09:14,040 when it comes to comes to that aspect of 1711 01:09:18,410 --> 01:09:16,110 it all but um you brought up two words 1712 01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:18,420 MJ that really struck a chord with me 1713 01:09:23,570 --> 01:09:21,090 and it relates to to a talk you're gonna 1714 01:09:26,750 --> 01:09:23,580 be giving at contact in the desert and 1715 01:09:28,900 --> 01:09:26,760 that's some culture and contact and this 1716 01:09:32,020 --> 01:09:28,910 is a lecture you're gonna be giving in 1717 01:09:34,580 --> 01:09:32,030 what is it late-may early-june in 1718 01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:34,590 California could you tell us maybe a 1719 01:09:38,450 --> 01:09:35,970 little about what you're gonna be 1720 01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:38,460 talking about there yeah sure I think 1721 01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:41,880 what my ultimate goal is and and 1722 01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:45,450 hopefully it's it's totally counter to 1723 01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:47,490 what contact in the desert wants or 1724 01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:49,260 thinks it's gonna get from me 1725 01:09:58,490 --> 01:09:52,890 no I'm I want to talk about the UFO 1726 01:10:00,380 --> 01:09:58,500 community as as a group and and how it 1727 01:10:04,300 --> 01:10:00,390 influences culture and how culture 1728 01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:04,310 influences the UFO community so so how 1729 01:10:10,940 --> 01:10:07,490 stuff like you know politics and and and 1730 01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:10,950 philosophy and you know race and gender 1731 01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:13,890 and all of the concerns we have in in 1732 01:10:18,830 --> 01:10:16,290 sort of everyday society are baked into 1733 01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:18,840 the UFO community and how we sort of 1734 01:10:23,990 --> 01:10:22,050 deal with that and then kind of link it 1735 01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:24,000 to the broader idea that the UFO 1736 01:10:26,780 --> 01:10:25,410 communities always had which is this 1737 01:10:29,330 --> 01:10:26,790 notion of contact with another 1738 01:10:31,190 --> 01:10:29,340 intelligence right so so how do the 1739 01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:31,200 cultural implications and the cultural 1740 01:10:37,670 --> 01:10:35,130 ideas we have as group kind of move into 1741 01:10:40,940 --> 01:10:37,680 this this world where you know we are 1742 01:10:43,670 --> 01:10:40,950 potentially encountering some sort of 1743 01:10:45,260 --> 01:10:43,680 non-human intelligence so my intention 1744 01:10:47,660 --> 01:10:45,270 is to not use the word alien or 1745 01:10:50,180 --> 01:10:47,670 extraterrestrial at all in my in my 1746 01:10:53,930 --> 01:10:50,190 lecture because I think what we need to 1747 01:10:58,310 --> 01:10:53,940 start avoiding within UFO conferences 1748 01:11:01,400 --> 01:10:58,320 within UFO discourse is is coming to 1749 01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:01,410 those big conclusions without having the 1750 01:11:04,250 --> 01:11:02,730 evidence 1751 01:11:06,290 --> 01:11:04,260 about aliens or extraterrestrials or 1752 01:11:08,570 --> 01:11:06,300 ultra terrestrials or interdimensional 1753 01:11:09,979 --> 01:11:08,580 beings or whatever I think we need to 1754 01:11:13,070 --> 01:11:09,989 start kind of exploring the UFO 1755 01:11:14,780 --> 01:11:13,080 phenomenon as being a cultural one we 1756 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:14,790 need to sort of observe it and we need 1757 01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:19,290 to to understand why UFO narratives 1758 01:11:23,420 --> 01:11:21,120 occur the way they do and why they often 1759 01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:23,430 mimic the cultural landscape that's our 1760 01:11:27,229 --> 01:11:25,530 kind of born in and then maybe that will 1761 01:11:30,860 --> 01:11:27,239 start helping us piece together sort of 1762 01:11:33,410 --> 01:11:30,870 the Enigma of UFOs so that that's kind 1763 01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:33,420 of the main idea I want to talk about 1764 01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:36,570 how humans interact with each other and 1765 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:38,250 how that relates to how we would 1766 01:11:42,710 --> 01:11:40,770 possibly interact with something that 1767 01:11:44,930 --> 01:11:42,720 isn't human so that's sort of the 1768 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:44,940 purpose of the lecture so I hope to 1769 01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:47,610 offend a significant amount of people on 1770 01:11:51,110 --> 01:11:49,650 tact in the desert because I'm gonna 1771 01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:51,120 tell them you know I think first and 1772 01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:53,370 foremost everything you think you know 1773 01:11:57,830 --> 01:11:55,650 is just like storytelling and that's 1774 01:11:59,840 --> 01:11:57,840 fine we just need to kind of be aware of 1775 01:12:01,670 --> 01:11:59,850 that I'm not saying you know experiences 1776 01:12:04,490 --> 01:12:01,680 don't happen I think they do I think 1777 01:12:05,810 --> 01:12:04,500 people do have strange experiences but 1778 01:12:07,729 --> 01:12:05,820 we don't know what those experiences are 1779 01:12:09,050 --> 01:12:07,739 not really and I think that that's all 1780 01:12:10,940 --> 01:12:09,060 we need to start addressing right we 1781 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:10,950 don't actually know what these 1782 01:12:15,620 --> 01:12:13,530 experiences are and it's odd that they 1783 01:12:18,979 --> 01:12:15,630 kind of reflect our cultural anxieties 1784 01:12:21,530 --> 01:12:18,989 all the time so so I think if there is a 1785 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:21,540 nonhuman intelligence playing with us in 1786 01:12:26,300 --> 01:12:24,210 some way it's using us and and our 1787 01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:26,310 culture's our cultural sort of 1788 01:12:28,940 --> 01:12:27,810 ideologies and paradigms and frameworks 1789 01:12:31,850 --> 01:12:28,950 to mess with us 1790 01:12:33,890 --> 01:12:31,860 maybe not in a bad way but just that's 1791 01:12:37,490 --> 01:12:33,900 what it's using to to engage with us in 1792 01:12:39,950 --> 01:12:37,500 in however it engages what engages us in 1793 01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:39,960 with that's confusing it uses our 1794 01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:42,090 cultural ideologies frameworks of 1795 01:12:46,580 --> 01:12:44,850 paradigms to create a place for itself 1796 01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:46,590 to manifest so it can engage with us 1797 01:12:49,729 --> 01:12:47,730 maybe that's a better way of doing it 1798 01:12:52,100 --> 01:12:49,739 right yeah I mean that might be all it 1799 01:12:53,630 --> 01:12:52,110 has to communicate with us so that's 1800 01:12:56,030 --> 01:12:53,640 fascinating man I can't wait to hear 1801 01:12:57,530 --> 01:12:56,040 that lecture I know I'm gonna be hosting 1802 01:13:00,050 --> 01:12:57,540 a panel that you're gonna be a part of 1803 01:13:02,900 --> 01:13:00,060 but you're also giving a workshop to on 1804 01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:02,910 teaching us how to write about the 1805 01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:05,130 paranormal so could you maybe tease this 1806 01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:07,650 a little bit like of how you're gonna do 1807 01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:09,450 this one yeah this is actually funny 1808 01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:11,370 because I I kind of pitched this this 1809 01:13:16,590 --> 01:13:14,210 this workshop a long time ago and 1810 01:13:18,570 --> 01:13:16,600 recently someone referred to me as like 1811 01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:18,580 a hack paranormal journalists and I kind 1812 01:13:22,860 --> 01:13:20,290 of took significant offense to that and 1813 01:13:24,750 --> 01:13:22,870 and I was like wait I guess I am 1814 01:13:27,330 --> 01:13:24,760 technically a paranormal journalist and 1815 01:13:30,060 --> 01:13:27,340 and because that's really what I focus 1816 01:13:31,470 --> 01:13:30,070 on right so I sort of had this weird gut 1817 01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:31,480 reaction and then I was like you know 1818 01:13:34,890 --> 01:13:33,010 what actually yeah you know what [\h__\h] 1819 01:13:35,730 --> 01:13:34,900 yeah I am a paranormal journalist go to 1820 01:13:39,330 --> 01:13:35,740 hell you know what I mean 1821 01:13:42,990 --> 01:13:39,340 damn private of it yeah so the the 1822 01:13:46,230 --> 01:13:43,000 workshop is it is gonna be predominantly 1823 01:13:49,260 --> 01:13:46,240 about how I think we ought to start 1824 01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:49,270 writing more about paranormal content 1825 01:13:54,150 --> 01:13:51,520 but we need to start writing about it in 1826 01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:54,160 clever ways that we can sneak it into 1827 01:14:00,660 --> 01:13:57,370 mainstream parts of sort of society 1828 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:00,670 right there's no short shortage of 1829 01:14:03,210 --> 01:14:02,770 paranormal content out there in the 1830 01:14:05,340 --> 01:14:03,220 world 1831 01:14:07,470 --> 01:14:05,350 there's tons of websites and blogs and 1832 01:14:09,570 --> 01:14:07,480 all that stuff the inherent problem is 1833 01:14:11,580 --> 01:14:09,580 is it tends to fall down sort of the 1834 01:14:14,250 --> 01:14:11,590 rabbit hole I just talked about in in 1835 01:14:17,370 --> 01:14:14,260 sort of the lecture point is that we 1836 01:14:20,070 --> 01:14:17,380 start to attribute our on our own kind 1837 01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:20,080 of cultural paradigms to it so we start 1838 01:14:26,550 --> 01:14:22,210 talking about ghosts and aliens and and 1839 01:14:28,170 --> 01:14:26,560 demons and and various other entities 1840 01:14:31,170 --> 01:14:28,180 and whatever and really we don't know 1841 01:14:33,060 --> 01:14:31,180 what is actually going on so how do we 1842 01:14:35,730 --> 01:14:33,070 approach the paranormal and how do we 1843 01:14:37,710 --> 01:14:35,740 write about it in ways that that appeal 1844 01:14:39,630 --> 01:14:37,720 to that idea of you know we're not 1845 01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:39,640 really sure but it's worth investigating 1846 01:14:43,140 --> 01:14:41,290 because people have weird experiences 1847 01:14:46,290 --> 01:14:43,150 how do we kind of translate that into 1848 01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:46,300 into a more mainstream framework so that 1849 01:14:52,140 --> 01:14:49,090 if you do want to write more about the 1850 01:14:54,300 --> 01:14:52,150 paranormal your your work will be 1851 01:14:58,220 --> 01:14:54,310 attractive to sort of the broader 1852 01:15:01,050 --> 01:14:58,230 community outside of paranormal culture 1853 01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:01,060 outside of UFO culture because we often 1854 01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:02,800 kind of get stuck in in in being very 1855 01:15:07,530 --> 01:15:05,650 youthful logical or very paranormal and 1856 01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:07,540 and to the rest of the world they just 1857 01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:09,970 like frankly don't care right not 1858 01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:13,840 everyone knows the history of our of our 1859 01:15:16,770 --> 01:15:15,610 sort of collective narratives so they 1860 01:15:17,820 --> 01:15:16,780 and it just they just can't be bought 1861 01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:17,830 through they got to drive their kids to 1862 01:15:21,630 --> 01:15:20,050 dance class and like get their Starbucks 1863 01:15:23,550 --> 01:15:21,640 so so obviously they've got bigger fish 1864 01:15:24,990 --> 01:15:23,560 to fry right so so we're kind of 1865 01:15:27,380 --> 01:15:25,000 starting to bridge those gaps a little 1866 01:15:30,030 --> 01:15:27,390 more and just kind of writing better 1867 01:15:31,740 --> 01:15:30,040 about paranormal subject matter 1868 01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:31,750 so that it's more accessible to people 1869 01:15:35,790 --> 01:15:33,850 so that's all my workshops about so 1870 01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:35,800 anyone who is out there and kind of has 1871 01:15:38,610 --> 01:15:36,910 always considered you know maybe I 1872 01:15:40,860 --> 01:15:38,620 should start a blog about you host or 1873 01:15:43,350 --> 01:15:40,870 the paranormal or ghosts or Bigfoot or 1874 01:15:45,980 --> 01:15:43,360 whatever you know how can I write it so 1875 01:15:48,780 --> 01:15:45,990 that I don't sound like a crazy person 1876 01:15:51,630 --> 01:15:48,790 you know my workshop will kind of 1877 01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:51,640 provide you maybe some some insight as 1878 01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:55,450 to how I did it and and you know if 1879 01:15:58,470 --> 01:15:56,800 there's if there's a path to be followed 1880 01:16:00,510 --> 01:15:58,480 there if there's a kind of a guide to be 1881 01:16:03,150 --> 01:16:00,520 followed there you know hopefully it 1882 01:16:04,830 --> 01:16:03,160 works out for you and you can do it you 1883 01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:04,840 know I mean oh yeah I'll be at that 1884 01:16:09,690 --> 01:16:07,450 workshop for sure I I know I could use a 1885 01:16:12,150 --> 01:16:09,700 brush up on how to accurately portray 1886 01:16:13,740 --> 01:16:12,160 these topics in an accessible way 1887 01:16:15,780 --> 01:16:13,750 because you know we do get caught in 1888 01:16:19,230 --> 01:16:15,790 these echo chambers and yeah you know 1889 01:16:22,170 --> 01:16:19,240 even with my podcast episodes or YouTube 1890 01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:22,180 videos I forget you know there are 1891 01:16:25,260 --> 01:16:23,260 people out there that are gonna be 1892 01:16:27,390 --> 01:16:25,270 hearing these names we always bring up 1893 01:16:30,300 --> 01:16:27,400 for the very first time or this case 1894 01:16:32,610 --> 01:16:30,310 from this year and you gotta keep that 1895 01:16:34,860 --> 01:16:32,620 in mind because you do want to reach a 1896 01:16:37,290 --> 01:16:34,870 larger audience you do want to make it 1897 01:16:40,350 --> 01:16:37,300 more mainstream so how do we do that so 1898 01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:40,360 I'm happy to see that someone is is out 1899 01:16:43,710 --> 01:16:41,920 there who can teach us how to do what 1900 01:16:45,900 --> 01:16:43,720 you did and write for these these 1901 01:16:48,210 --> 01:16:45,910 websites who you know kind of shuddered 1902 01:16:50,310 --> 01:16:48,220 away from these topics for so long so 1903 01:16:52,230 --> 01:16:50,320 yeah I mean when when all this stuff 1904 01:16:54,030 --> 01:16:52,240 started and I started pitching to to 1905 01:16:57,780 --> 01:16:54,040 vice and harm Kennex and all like I 1906 01:17:00,270 --> 01:16:57,790 pitched to everybody 80% or 85% of the 1907 01:17:01,860 --> 01:17:00,280 time I would get no response there'd be 1908 01:17:03,450 --> 01:17:01,870 another 10% of the time where they'd be 1909 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:03,460 like okay tell me more and then they but 1910 01:17:09,380 --> 01:17:06,730 not interested and it was really the the 1911 01:17:13,530 --> 01:17:09,390 the reason was because I was pitching 1912 01:17:15,570 --> 01:17:13,540 very youthful logical content that to 1913 01:17:17,940 --> 01:17:15,580 the editor who was reading the pitch 1914 01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:17,950 basically said I have zero clue what 1915 01:17:20,490 --> 01:17:19,120 you're talking about this sounds dumb 1916 01:17:24,450 --> 01:17:20,500 and then they were just like delete the 1917 01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:24,460 email right so so the idea is to is to 1918 01:17:30,780 --> 01:17:27,520 is to learn how to tie in news and 1919 01:17:32,670 --> 01:17:30,790 current events and mainstream stuff into 1920 01:17:35,130 --> 01:17:32,680 your content so that it becomes 1921 01:17:38,850 --> 01:17:35,140 palatable for editors and and and 1922 01:17:40,830 --> 01:17:38,860 whatever as well as just plain old 1923 01:17:44,010 --> 01:17:40,840 fashioned you know you need evidence 1924 01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:44,020 before you can publish anything which is 1925 01:17:48,570 --> 01:17:46,510 you know again for a lot of people at 1926 01:17:51,660 --> 01:17:48,580 contact in the desert 1927 01:17:52,770 --> 01:17:51,670 some of the guests who are speaking who 1928 01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:52,780 have their own blogs and websites 1929 01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:55,090 publish things that are totally wacky 1930 01:17:58,740 --> 01:17:57,130 and have zero evidence to support them 1931 01:18:01,140 --> 01:17:58,750 but you know it's gonna be interesting 1932 01:18:02,820 --> 01:18:01,150 conversation with with the attendees to 1933 01:18:04,890 --> 01:18:02,830 see if they can like you know point out 1934 01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:04,900 oh hey this guy has a website and it's 1935 01:18:07,650 --> 01:18:06,730 silly and it doesn't make sense it's 1936 01:18:09,090 --> 01:18:07,660 like yes it's because there's no 1937 01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:09,100 evidence and you know like having those 1938 01:18:12,510 --> 01:18:11,110 conversations as well I'm trying to pick 1939 01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:12,520 apart some stuff I think will be fun oh 1940 01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:14,260 yeah it's gonna be an interesting 1941 01:18:19,770 --> 01:18:17,050 weekend for sure it'll be both our first 1942 01:18:21,270 --> 01:18:19,780 times at contact and dessert we're also 1943 01:18:23,970 --> 01:18:21,280 gonna be sharing a table together 1944 01:18:27,330 --> 01:18:23,980 signing selling books which is gonna be 1945 01:18:30,150 --> 01:18:27,340 awesome and I'm sure we'll have plenty 1946 01:18:33,990 --> 01:18:30,160 of content to bring to everyone on May 1947 01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:34,000 29th through June 1st of this I guess 1948 01:18:37,890 --> 01:18:35,770 spring yeah this spring in Indian Wells 1949 01:18:39,810 --> 01:18:37,900 California so that's gonna be fun yeah 1950 01:18:42,630 --> 01:18:39,820 I'm really excited to go I'm really 1951 01:18:44,310 --> 01:18:42,640 excited to meet people who are in this 1952 01:18:45,690 --> 01:18:44,320 community who I just don't ever get to 1953 01:18:47,970 --> 01:18:45,700 Meeks I'm all the way up here in Canada 1954 01:18:49,110 --> 01:18:47,980 I'm I'm excited to have my life 1955 01:18:51,030 --> 01:18:49,120 threatened I'm sure it's gonna happen 1956 01:18:52,860 --> 01:18:51,040 like I'm you know I'm gonna be called a 1957 01:18:54,780 --> 01:18:52,870 CIA shill like I'm really excited for 1958 01:18:57,420 --> 01:18:54,790 all these sort of moments in my life 1959 01:18:59,790 --> 01:18:57,430 that that I can finally say happened so 1960 01:19:00,860 --> 01:18:59,800 that's when you know you've made it yeah 1961 01:19:04,229 --> 01:19:00,870 exactly 1962 01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:04,239 man well MJ where can we find out more 1963 01:19:07,650 --> 01:19:06,010 of what you're up to man and do you have 1964 01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:07,660 anything coming up that you can sort of 1965 01:19:13,110 --> 01:19:10,540 to use to us or um yeah what's going on 1966 01:19:15,900 --> 01:19:13,120 in your UFO world oh man 1967 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:15,910 well my the last time we spoke I had a 1968 01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:17,410 YouTube channel I still have a YouTube 1969 01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:19,810 channel but it hasn't been updated in a 1970 01:19:26,100 --> 01:19:23,440 long time just with writing and and all 1971 01:19:28,110 --> 01:19:26,110 the stuff I'm up to it's just way too 1972 01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:28,120 difficult to keep a youtube channel 1973 01:19:32,459 --> 01:19:31,120 going so it's kind of been pushed to the 1974 01:19:34,950 --> 01:19:32,469 wayside I know I've made a lot of 1975 01:19:37,470 --> 01:19:34,960 promises to bring it back but right now 1976 01:19:38,820 --> 01:19:37,480 it's just not in the cards so if you 1977 01:19:41,010 --> 01:19:38,830 still want to subscribe you can see all 1978 01:19:43,410 --> 01:19:41,020 my old content I'm sure I'll start kind 1979 01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:43,420 of posting videos kind of eventually 1980 01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:46,210 sort of piece by piece but really 1981 01:19:52,229 --> 01:19:48,880 everything can be found at my website 1982 01:19:54,030 --> 01:19:52,239 it's MJ bond is calm which kind of links 1983 01:19:56,220 --> 01:19:54,040 to everything you can follow me on 1984 01:19:57,830 --> 01:19:56,230 twitter at MJ be nice Instagram Facebook 1985 01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:57,840 I'm on all the social media 1986 01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:00,480 is my blog Terra obscure Annette is 1987 01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:02,730 still up and running you can get to it 1988 01:20:07,609 --> 01:20:05,489 through MJ by nice calm I am looking 1989 01:20:10,010 --> 01:20:07,619 actually to to bring in some more guest 1990 01:20:12,859 --> 01:20:10,020 writers again it's tough to keep a blog 1991 01:20:14,359 --> 01:20:12,869 going as well as write for for vice in 1992 01:20:18,109 --> 01:20:14,369 apartment mechanics and and other 1993 01:20:20,930 --> 01:20:18,119 publications so it's it's it's kind of 1994 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:20,940 in this weird stasis I recently had a 1995 01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:22,530 great piece by a gentleman named Chris 1996 01:20:27,530 --> 01:20:25,920 Blake who is african-american and spoke 1997 01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:27,540 about what it's like to be sort of 1998 01:20:32,330 --> 01:20:29,090 african-american in the UFO community 1999 01:20:35,959 --> 01:20:32,340 and and what like why people don't 2000 01:20:37,790 --> 01:20:35,969 believe him because he's black this was 2001 01:20:39,020 --> 01:20:37,800 a very interesting kind of piece he did 2002 01:20:41,419 --> 01:20:39,030 so if you want to check that out by 2003 01:20:44,270 --> 01:20:41,429 Chris Blake it's called the the pattern 2004 01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:44,280 and the phenomenon on Arab Sakura it's a 2005 01:20:49,490 --> 01:20:47,520 sweet sweet cultural UFO piece and it 2006 01:20:50,990 --> 01:20:49,500 deals with race relations and I have to 2007 01:20:53,570 --> 01:20:51,000 be an honest it's it's probably my 2008 01:20:55,339 --> 01:20:53,580 favorite piece on tear obscura and like 2009 01:20:56,750 --> 01:20:55,349 I've written most of those pieces and I 2010 01:20:59,060 --> 01:20:56,760 hate them compared to what this guy 2011 01:21:00,950 --> 01:20:59,070 produced so I would say check that out 2012 01:21:02,629 --> 01:21:00,960 if you do have and it's kind of an 2013 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:02,639 all-call if you do have some ideas for 2014 01:21:07,939 --> 01:21:04,770 writing your into the more cultural 2015 01:21:11,089 --> 01:21:07,949 aspects of UFOs not necessarily telling 2016 01:21:13,399 --> 01:21:11,099 me about your UFO sighting or you know 2017 01:21:15,890 --> 01:21:13,409 what it looked like more kind of how 2018 01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:15,900 culture and and and media influences 2019 01:21:20,510 --> 01:21:18,330 UFOs I would love to have more guest 2020 01:21:22,550 --> 01:21:20,520 posts so if you're out there you can 2021 01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:22,560 just shoot me an email you can get me 2022 01:21:27,649 --> 01:21:25,020 through Twitter or or you just email me 2023 01:21:29,450 --> 01:21:27,659 at tear obscura blog and gmail.com and 2024 01:21:31,399 --> 01:21:29,460 just find me online you'll find my email 2025 01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:31,409 yeah I would love to get more guest 2026 01:21:35,780 --> 01:21:33,810 posts on Tarab Spira as for me 2027 01:21:37,729 --> 01:21:35,790 personally lots of articles I have a 2028 01:21:41,870 --> 01:21:37,739 couple articles coming out probably this 2029 01:21:43,399 --> 01:21:41,880 week or next week on Vice I have a type 2030 01:21:46,310 --> 01:21:43,409 of mechanics piece coming out on John 2031 01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:46,320 keel very shortly yeah one about a UFO 2032 01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:48,690 cult David Wilcock Corey good are you 2033 01:21:55,100 --> 01:21:52,800 listening I'm sure they are as well as a 2034 01:21:57,080 --> 01:21:55,110 few other interesting pieces in in the 2035 01:22:00,140 --> 01:21:57,090 near future so there's always stuff 2036 01:22:01,970 --> 01:22:00,150 coming out and yeah you know thanks very 2037 01:22:04,430 --> 01:22:01,980 much for letting me plug away absolutely 2038 01:22:07,629 --> 01:22:04,440 man and we can't forget the UFO people a 2039 01:22:10,970 --> 01:22:07,639 curious culture available on Amazon 2040 01:22:11,609 --> 01:22:10,980 again one of the best contributions to 2041 01:22:15,449 --> 01:22:11,619 the field and 2042 01:22:16,679 --> 01:22:15,459 very long time so oh shut up ah shucks 2043 01:22:18,419 --> 01:22:16,689 I'm just saying that because I gotta 2044 01:22:22,169 --> 01:22:18,429 share a table with you for three days 2045 01:22:23,969 --> 01:22:22,179 yeah yeah well listen you'll be happy 2046 01:22:25,529 --> 01:22:23,979 when like all of your enemies show up 2047 01:22:27,270 --> 01:22:25,539 and I'm the only one who has your back 2048 01:22:27,569 --> 01:22:27,280 you know you'll be happy to have me 2049 01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:27,579 there 2050 01:22:32,669 --> 01:22:30,489 it's so true we're gonna have black 2051 01:22:35,729 --> 01:22:32,679 jackets that's for sure yeah 2052 01:22:37,889 --> 01:22:35,739 Oh MJ dude it is always a pleasure to 2053 01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:37,899 kick back some whiskey with you this has 2054 01:22:43,229 --> 01:22:40,570 been a very long awaited and overdue 2055 01:22:45,330 --> 01:22:43,239 session of summer in the whiskey so as 2056 01:22:47,639 --> 01:22:45,340 always I have to thank you for coming on 2057 01:22:52,199 --> 01:22:47,649 somewhere in this guise it's always a 2058 01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:52,209 pleasure to be here thank you that's it 2059 01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:54,010 for this week's episode again my thanks 2060 01:22:58,949 --> 01:22:56,530 to MJ for coming on be sure to check out 2061 01:23:01,560 --> 01:22:58,959 all his work over on face and Popular 2062 01:23:04,889 --> 01:23:01,570 Mechanics check out our patreon campaign 2063 01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:04,899 with over 50 bonus episodes right now to 2064 01:23:09,089 --> 01:23:06,639 become a patron and to receive many 2065 01:23:11,939 --> 01:23:09,099 rewards in return visit patreon.com 2066 01:23:13,889 --> 01:23:11,949 slash summer skies please consider 2067 01:23:15,509 --> 01:23:13,899 subscribing rating and reviewing 2068 01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:15,519 somewhere in the skies wherever you get 2069 01:23:18,839 --> 01:23:16,570 your podcasts 2070 01:23:20,969 --> 01:23:18,849 it helps us gain visibility and finally 2071 01:23:23,189 --> 01:23:20,979 listeners follow us on twitter at 2072 01:23:25,859 --> 01:23:23,199 similar skies and instagram at somewhere 2073 01:23:28,709 --> 01:23:25,869 sky spot my special thanks to the e one 2074 01:23:30,540 --> 01:23:28,719 podcast network real planet and to you 2075 01:23:32,909 --> 01:23:30,550 for listening I'll see you here next 2076 01:23:34,739 --> 01:23:32,919 week and remember keep your feet on the 2077 01:23:36,230 --> 01:23:34,749 ground but never stop searching 2078 01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:36,240 somewhere in the skies 2079 01:23:57,230 --> 01:23:55,810 [Music] 2080 01:24:18,270 --> 01:23:57,240 [Applause] 2081 01:24:22,260 --> 01:24:20,520 somewhere in the skies is produced by 2082 01:24:24,210 --> 01:24:22,270 Third Kind productions in association 2083 01:24:26,010 --> 01:24:24,220 with the entertainment one podcast